[C4RACER]

So we have come to the point where we realize the 3 cars we have are not quite enough to serve all our needs and started looking for a 4th car. The main factor in that is that my oldest daughter will start driving in 2010 and there is no way she will be allowed to drive either my S4 or the X5 4.6is. So that leaves my wife's Mazda Protege5 as the only car we have that I would allow her to drive. The problem is, whenever she is driving that my wife needs something to drive. She really doesn't like driving the X5 much - has too much power for her, it's too big, she gets nervous about hurting my "baby" , plus she drives more than 2K miles per month so the gas bills would kill us!!

Anyway - suffice it to say we will be adding a 4th car to the mix some time in the next 3-6 months for sure. Most likely sooner rather than later too because I am replacing the motor in the Mazda right now, so it may be some time before that car is fully operational and 100% trusted for her transporting 2 groups of 3 kids across town from schools (carpool for both our kids) plus more trips for sports commitments (both our kids are big time into athletics, which is good - and sometimes bad!!).

Looking to add something along the lines of an E90 3 series, maybe a Lexus IS250, and still an outside possibility of a larger car like a 5 series or Lexus GS, or Infiniti G35/37.

So what I am realizing is the S4 is a somewhat redundant vehicle if I have a nice premium sedan to drive around with the family for the weekend, and the X5 to cover my utility needs and AWD for ski trips. I am also a musician, so I have major equipment that needs hauling on a regular basis - drums, keyboards, PA equipment, etc. The S4 works for some things, but is cramped and doesn't fit everything I need to haul, so the X5 is the one I'd pick if choosing between the two - plus the wife will drive it when needed, but she won't drive the S4 which is a stick shift. She can drive stick, but hates it. Go figure. I grew up with one and much prefer a manual w/ a clutch.

So the thought has occurred to me to swap the S4 for an E46 M3 coupe w/ 6-speed once I get settled with a new sedan that will be shared between my wife and I. The X5 can easily cover all my utility needs and is a pure joy to drive in it's own right. What I am missing is a more hard edged sports car that I can really connect with. I need to at least have the option to carry 2 kids in the back seat in a pinch and folding seats in my daily driver, so the M3 is pretty much the only car that would fit the bill. I have been active in road racing, HPDE and Autox for years, but have given that up for the time being to focus on family and music. So I'm not looking for a track car, but I know how to drive a car in anger on a track - I raced with NASA in CMC for a little while most recently. Feel is such a big thing for me - steering and brake feel, handling, etc. The S4 is a great daily driver and is very quick around corners wet or dry. But it does give up a lot of precision and feel to an M3. I really do like the V8 tho, but at least I would have the 4.6is for my V8 fix if I made the swap.

My DD is the car I drive most. To work most days year round, and on weekends whenever it is just me or me and 1 kid (which is much of the time these days we are running two different directions with a high school and jr. high student at different schools). Folding seats are needed so I can carry a bike or a keyboard. Wagon is really handy, but when I need that much space it is no trouble to drive the X5, so the S4 is more useful, but I have the utility aspect covered with an equally entertaining car now. So I am finally in a place where an M3 actually makes sense.

I have owned many great cars - I will run down the short list of ones that are in the class of an M3 as far as sports car performance:
Z06 Corvette
C4 Corvette (eventually became a race car)
Evo IX
E36 M3
E39 M5
CTS-V first gen

Never owned a Porsche. Would love to have a 911 someday, but will wait until the kids are off and gone I think.

So I guess my real question is this - since my normal daily routine consists of a good bit of highway driving, is an M3 really worth having? I have very little time to go canyon carving to really experience the true capabilities of the car. I guess in that sense I tend to think the S4 is a pretty ideal daily driver. Interior is just superb - better than any BMW I've ever owned. Recaro seats covered in Napa leather that fit me perfectly. Smooth V8 with tons of tq so it's not fussy what gear I'm in. Good steering and brake feel - adequate handling although you can tell the car is no lightweight. It is far more tossable than an M5, but not quite in the M3's league. Overall it's really a great car and I have been so happy with it and no thoughts about switching it. I've had it 2 years now and driven it 34K miles - currently has 82K on the clock and car still looks and runs like it is brand new. Much like my experience with BMW's. It's a good car. Better in some ways than an M3 for sure. But lacking the pure precision, RWD balance and steering feel and sharp handling of the M3. Which I kinda miss. But is that really that important in a daily car seeing mostly mundane use and where only every once in awhile do I get to enjoy an on-ramp or curve somewhere. What I am most afraid of is making the switch and then realizing that as much as I like the steering feel and sharp precision of the M3, I miss the good things about the S4 like interior and the V8 motor even more!! I don't even know how to go about making that decision....

[Burrito]

I had a maxxed out 05, (b6) s4 before I bought my first 01 M3, and honestly it was night and day as far as satisfaction goes. I agree with all your points except about the V8 engine in the S4, which I found absolutely boring. Even with all that I could do to it, it somehow was just not rewarding to ring out. It has torq, but the s4 also weighs a few hundred pounds more, so its almost a wash. The s54 is a work of art almost, and a pleasure to ring out.

As far as a DD, if you experience snow or lots of rain where you are, I would keep the s4, otherwise, get the m3, i am able to transport pretty much anything with the seats folded down. the items you mentioned would be no problem.

That said, I think you should get a e90 M3, which sounds like the best of both worlds for you. I would only get the e46 m3 if you love it, love driving it etc. Otherwise, it looks dated to me, and the interior is subpar to the audi you are in, which might bug you.

Honestly, considering you have a fleet of cars right now, I would keep what you have, batten down the hatches and just save for a e90 m3, or something else. I believe HYPER inflation is imminent, and alot of other problems

[C4RACER]

Originally Posted by Burrito

I had a maxxed out 05, (b6) s4 before I bought my first 01 M3, and honestly it was night and day as far as satisfaction goes. I agree with all your points except about the V8 engine in the S4, which I found absolutely boring. Even with all that I could do to it, it somehow was just not rewarding to ring out. It has torq, but the s4 also weighs a few hundred pounds more, so its almost a wash. The s54 is a work of art almost, and a pleasure to ring out.

As far as a DD, if you experience snow or lots of rain where you are, I would keep the s4, otherwise, get the m3, i am able to transport pretty much anything with the seats folded down. the items you mentioned would be no problem.

That said, I think you should get a e90 M3, which sounds like the best of both worlds for you. I would only get the e46 m3 if you love it, love driving it etc. Otherwise, it looks dated to me, and the interior is subpar to the audi you are in, which might bug you.

Honestly, considering you have a fleet of cars right now, I would keep what you have, batten down the hatches and just save for a e90 m3, or something else. I believe HYPER inflation is imminent, and alot of other problems

doesn't rain that much here, never snow - I live in CA. I do really like the E46 M3, but I do prefer the interior in the Audi. I am a little bit stuck in that the Avant S4 is a great utility car plus still fun to drive daily driver. But I have the X5 for utility needs and it is equally fun to drive...

I am sure I would really like the E90 M3, but it will take some years for those to get to a price point that makes sense for me I think.

I do have an aftermarket exhaust on my S4, so that makes wringing it out a bit more fun. But I agree that it is not nearly as satisfying as the S54 at full wail. Where it is useful is a quick stab gets you moving almost no matter which gear you are in - that is what I like about it more than the fun of winding it up. The Avant is another 100-150lbs on top of a regular S4, so my car is pushing 3950lbs I think. It's pretty heavy. Avant looks way cool tho - I must say I do like the way it looks!!

[tonggi]

avant = pure sex. especially if its a B5.

[lucky_doggg7]

OP - Before pulling the trigger on a S4 Avant, drive one. In your post, you emphasize your driving prowess and based on that, I'm not so sure you would have fun driving an S4. I've owned quattros in the past (and currently have an ABT ur quattro) and these machines are understeering machines. They are great on the street because they are super-safe and near impossible to get out of shape due to their handling bias (understeer). This understeering characteristic I think, would probably frustrate you to tears because once the grip threshold on the front end is reached, it is just gonna understeer more. Unless you know how to left foot brake, which I'm thinking you do, then you can adjust the car's cornering attitude at the corner's entrance. All this might be secondary if you are getting an Avant, which if I translate this correctly is that this will be nice utility-like vehicle, and if this is primary, then the Avant, in my opinion, would be a great choice. Lastly, the thought of putting a young driver (your daughter) in a 333 hp GT machine with a certain tail out attitude seems a bit scary to me. Good luck & have a Happy New Year!

[Ingenere]

Originally Posted by lucky_doggg7

OP - Before pulling the trigger on a S4 Avant, drive one. In your post, you emphasize your driving prowess and based on that, I'm not so sure you would have fun driving an S4. I've owned quattros in the past (and currently have an ABT ur quattro) and these machines are understeering machines. They are great on the street because they are super-safe and near impossible to get out of shape due to their handling bias (understeer). This understeering characteristic I think, would probably frustrate you to tears because once the grip threshold on the front end is reached, it is just gonna understeer more. Unless you know how to left foot brake, which I'm thinking you do, then you can adjust the car's cornering attitude at the corner's entrance. All this might be secondary if you are getting an Avant, which if I translate this correctly is that this will be nice utility-like vehicle, and if this is primary, then the Avant, in my opinion, would be a great choice. Lastly, the thought of putting a young driver (your daughter) in a 333 hp GT machine with a certain tail out attitude seems a bit scary to me. Good luck & have a Happy New Year!

He already has the S4. Read the lengthy post!

The real answer is let the kid get a job, take the bus and when she earns enough money to buy the car and pay for insurance and all the other costs.... she gets a car. Problem solved.

[Chanman]

Me thinks your looking for an excuse to buy the M3
It's okay though, we all understand

[C4RACER]

Originally Posted by Chanman

Me thinks your looking for an excuse to buy the M3
It's okay though, we all understand

some of that going on too

[cheu_f50]

Originally Posted by lucky_doggg7

OP - Before pulling the trigger on a S4 Avant, drive one. In your post, you emphasize your driving prowess and based on that, I'm not so sure you would have fun driving an S4. I've owned quattros in the past (and currently have an ABT ur quattro) and these machines are understeering machines. They are great on the street because they are super-safe and near impossible to get out of shape due to their handling bias (understeer). This understeering characteristic I think, would probably frustrate you to tears because once the grip threshold on the front end is reached, it is just gonna understeer more. Unless you know how to left foot brake, which I'm thinking you do, then you can adjust the car's cornering attitude at the corner's entrance. All this might be secondary if you are getting an Avant, which if I translate this correctly is that this will be nice utility-like vehicle, and if this is primary, then the Avant, in my opinion, would be a great choice. Lastly, the thought of putting a young driver (your daughter) in a 333 hp GT machine with a certain tail out attitude seems a bit scary to me. Good luck & have a Happy New Year!

wait i thought he OP had the S4 already, and is considering the M3 for himself ... and giving he daughter the mazda and the wife drives he mazda as well but the mazda need a new engine soon ... i am not really following the whos driving what scenario, but regardless about the S4-M3 swap ... since from what i have gathered, the swap is for you ... the whole daughter needs a car is only background info that sets up the reason for the trade thought process.


I dont have trouble with it as my DD now even in the New England rain and snow so I would say as a DD its pretty good car. Since you have the trunk space problem solved with the X5, so I completely agree that you no longer need the S4. So as a spirited DD, I think the E46 M3 is going to be great. You might not experience the M3 to its fullest on highways, but at least you know you have the potential to go out and have fun when you can. I think you will be doing yourself a favor to have the M3 in the stable.

[C4RACER]

Originally Posted by cheu_f50

wait i thought he OP had the S4 already, and is considering the M3 for himself ... and giving he daughter the mazda and the wife drives he mazda as well but the mazda need a new engine soon ... i am not really following the whos driving what scenario, but regardless about the S4-M3 swap ... since from what i have gathered, the swap is for you ... the whole daughter needs a car is only background info that sets up the reason for the trade thought process.


I dont have trouble with it as my DD now even in the New England rain and snow so I would say as a DD its pretty good car. Since you have the trunk space problem solved with the X5, so I completely agree that you no longer need the S4. So as a spirited DD, I think the E46 M3 is going to be great. You might not experience the M3 to its fullest on highways, but at least you know you have the potential to go out and have fun when you can. I think you will be doing yourself a favor to have the M3 in the stable.

That is exactly my thinking too - when I get the chance to jump on it, the M3 will be far more satisfying than the S4. And it makes for a good driver the rest of the time as well. I prefer lighter cars, and I just don't have one in the stable right now which has me jonesing for the M3 I guess. I almost pulled the trigger on them twice - ended up with a Z04 Corvette the first time (mistake) and a S4 second time (great choice at the time). But now I have the utility aspect covered with the X5, so it opens up the possibility for a more properly sporting daily driver.

When I bought the S4 I had a Suburban as my utility vehicle, which I hated driving. I needed it for towing. But I got out of organized racing, so that need went away and I swapped the burb for an X5. Now I have a utility car that is perfectly enjoyable to drive, so the S4 utility is really no longer required.

As far as the kid driving goes - it will free up the parents schedule to allow the kid to drive sometimes, so this will be done more for our sake than hers.