Can you guys check over my suspension shopping list?

rln_21 · Wed, Jan-13-2010, 07:38:44 AM

I got some extra money so I'm going to start upgrading my '99 M3 coupe by replacing all the bushings and some other parts in the suspension...

This is my list so far; can you guy look it over and let me know if anything is incompatible, needs changed for something better, or can be gotten cheaper elsewhere?
I am definitely willing to give up some comfort for a better handling car, I like to drive hard... Plus, I doubt many things can be more uncomfortable than the H&R Race springs/factory shocks in there, can't wait to get rid of those...

Thanks for any input...

Front Suspension:

X-Brace - Tischer Used

Lemforder Control Arms - Tischer $360 set

Lemforder Tie Rods - AutohausAz $47 ea

FCAB - PowerflexUSA centered $65 set

Rear Suspension:

Adjustable Rear Camber arms - SPC Performance Steel tubular $165 set from SummitRacing.
RTAB - PowerflexUSA $75 set

Subframe bushings - AKG $190

Big tub of marine grease...

Differential Bushings - AKG $120
Differential bolt - ?

Upper Outer bearing (2ea) - AutohausAz OEM $37
Lower Outer bearing (2ea) - AutohausAz OEM $37

Lower Inner bushing (2ea) - Tischer OEM $13
Lower Inner bushings (2ea) should be included with the adjustable lower camber arms, correct?

Motor Mounts - Vorshlag Poly $185
Tranny Mounts - UUC red mount $35

Rear swaybar mount reinforcement - AKG $35
Is it worth doing the swaybar reinforcements if I only changed the front swaybar?

Well, thats all for now, did I miss any bushings or anything else that needs to be done while I'm in there? No swaybars yet...
Thats about $1800 total with the cheaper camber arms if anyone is interested...

Is it common to replace all the hardware during such a suspension overhaul. I am assuming hardware needs to be ordered separately from most/all of these parts.
If anyone has part numbers for any of the hardware I would appreciate it, otherwise I will try and decipher RealOEM/Tischer drawings....

I have no idea how I'm going to get all this installed since I don't have a garage or any of the necessary tools etc., one thing at a time I guess...

On a different note, in looking at the TCKline and Ground Control websites it appears that the S/A TruMatch coilovers and the GC #9 kit are both now $1850. However, the GC kit comes with camber plates while with the TCKline kit I would still need to buy Vorschlag plates for an extra $360 or so, it seems that there is a definite preference here for the Vorshlag plates over the GC plates.

There seems to be a slight bias on the forum here in preference for the TCKline suspension...
Is it worth the extra $360 dollars or so to get the TCKline set with the preferred Vorschlag camber plates for someone who will only rarely adjust the camber or should I go ahead and get the GC kit and save some money for something else, perhaps swaybars.

Are there other differences/advantages to either kit that I am missing, the VVS springs on the TCKline kit seem preferred by some? If I can find a good used set of used coilovers of either brand this might be moot as I will get whichever set is available first.
Subjective opinions appreciated

**jvit27** · Wed, Jan-13-2010, 08:31:15 AM

TCKline hardware quality is a little nicer than GC.

Go OEM for motor mounts and subframe bushings.

Turner's rear camber arms are a little easier to adjust, but the SPC's don't weigh much more and cost 1/2 the price.

Try to do everything at once and give it a good alignment immediately after. No sense in doing things twice.. other than that, solid list.

pbonsalb · Wed, Jan-13-2010, 11:46:12 AM

Good list. I have everything on it with a few substitutions. Try Bimmerschwag for the control arms -- I bought at $292 a set for Lemforders last fall. I found BMP/SPC all aluminum rear control arms at $225 a set on sale about a year ago (they come with the lower inner bushing and I recommend the standard rubber over rod end). Use synthetic marine grease and it still won't eliminate squeaks from the poly over the long term if you drive in winter. I used AKG's all poly diff mount set rather than Turner's aluminum/poly combination.

I use Bimmerworld solid rubber motor mounts with UUC blacks and cups; someone I am in touch with uses the Vorshlag poly engine mounts and found annoying vibration with Vorshlag poly tranny mounts so he switched to UUC Race tranny mounts torqued correctly and is now happy. If going all out on the motor/trans mount combination, you may have to play around before you find a stiffness that makes you happy. A slightly higher engine rpm smooths things out, so if you are getting a tune, consider an 850-900 rpm idle. Also helps reduce or even eliminate rattle with a LTW flywheel, though with your stiff suspension, you will be feeling a lot more of everything than you are used to.

I would not worry about replacing any hardware that is in good condition. I would do all the reinforcements you can while you are in there. Rear swaybar tabs (the angle shaped ones seem to be stronger), front differential bolt support brace from Mike Radowski/Maximum Psi, reinforced tranny cross member from Radowski/Maximum Psi, RTAB pocket reinforcements, front crossmember reinforcements.

When you do the rear subframe bushings with Powerflex, research the heavier duty washers and alternative studs/bolts that some people in the Bimmerforums track section are using. In many cases, the supplied washers do cup and it would be easiest to do the job right the first time. I may have to go back in to redo this part on my car.

Great time to do your oil pump nut if you have not. You may also want to order new parking brake cables to make the rear end work easier if you live in a climate that sees winter. Consider rear wheel bearings while you are in there since it is little extra labor. Consider new parking brake shoes while in there.

It is such a big job that you will face a hefty labor bill unless you can do most of it yourself.

I use the TCK SA with 450/500 springs and Vorshlag plates. After 18 months, I am considering adding some more spring rate. 500/550 maybe.

All this will make for a very radical change and is really about all you might want to do for a street driven car. It is true that you don't need any of this stuff and that new stock will make your car drive like a new stock example, something most of us never experienced because we bought used, but which just about everyone who bought or tested new really liked.

Richardsperry · Wed, Jan-13-2010, 11:55:03 AM

What are you going to use the car for? Unless it's a track car, you are really spending money on stuff you don't need. (for a street car don't want...)

Pass on the adjustable rear control arms, subframe bushings, poly motor and tranny mounts and diff mounts. OE is fine. (E21 or UUC tranny mounts)

I'd get the UUC front lca bushings.

Unless you have big honking antiroll bars, you really don't need the reinforcements.

TC Kline is very nice.

The Vorshlag plates are very nice, better than the GC ones. Neither are necessary on a street car.

If it were me, I'd make sure my IRA was fully funded first. OOPS financial advice, no BMW content.

fiveightandten · Wed, Jan-13-2010, 11:57:58 AM

Buy your x-brace used for half the price. I got mine for $80 in the BFC classifieds.

If you're making a big order from Tischer, get the tie rod ends there as well. Sometimes Pelican's parts are a little funky, and for the price, I wouldn't risk it.

If you're using Powerflex Subframe bushings, see this thread:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=300992

Personally, i'd use OEM diff mounts. They're pretty robust. If you're going to use TMS, you may want to think about getting a diff brace. Don't forget a brand new front diff bolt if it doesn't come with the kit.

OahuMPower · Wed, Jan-13-2010, 01:37:15 PM

+1 on the UUC LCA bushings

I've seen even stock m3 swaybars crack the rear swaybar mounts

Powerflex subframe bushings= mcmaster washers/e90 front suspension bolt modification

OEM for motor mounts if the car is going to be a street car

+1 on doing it right once, and getting a good alignment afterwords

camdinans3 · Wed, Jan-13-2010, 01:53:32 PM

If you're going to get the turner rear camber arms (which i have) get the bushing end, the rod end will be too harsh.

WRXEATR · Wed, Jan-13-2010, 03:50:28 PM

MANY of those parts are cheaper at autohausAZ.com just FYI.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=296113

das borgen · Wed, Jan-13-2010, 07:23:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WRXEATR

MANY of those parts are cheaper at autohausAZ.com just FYI.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=296113

came here to post this

the tie rods (OE lemforder) are 47 a side

rln_21 · Thu, Jan-14-2010, 02:22:49 AM

Thanks for all the great input, list updated...

Looks like I can just buy the AKG subframe mounts and avoid all the trouble with the Powerflex ones. I will probably just go with the AKG differential mounts as well.

Didn't find control arms any cheaper from Bimmerschwag or AutohausAZ, but found cheaper tie rods.

Is there a boot/dust cover that should be replaced with the tie rods or is the one in there probably fine?

One thing I am still confused over, are the rear outer upper and lower bushings/bearings all the same part number or are they different?

Does this part work for all four? 33321140345 Lemforder http://www.autohausaz.com/search/gro...nsion%20System

Also, fiveightandten, you recommended a new front differential bolt, do you have a part number? Is that the upper holder bolt? http://www.bimmerschwag.com/partloca...layCatalogid=0

Wed, Jan-13-2010, 07:38:44 AM	#1
rln_21 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 86 Reputation: 0	Can you guys check over my suspension shopping list? I got some extra money so I'm going to start upgrading my '99 M3 coupe by replacing all the bushings and some other parts in the suspension... This is my list so far; can you guy look it over and let me know if anything is incompatible, needs changed for something better, or can be gotten cheaper elsewhere? I am definitely willing to give up some comfort for a better handling car, I like to drive hard... Plus, I doubt many things can be more uncomfortable than the H&R Race springs/factory shocks in there, can't wait to get rid of those... Thanks for any input... Front Suspension: X-Brace - Tischer Used Lemforder Control Arms - Tischer $360 set Lemforder Tie Rods - AutohausAz $47 ea FCAB - PowerflexUSA centered $65 set Rear Suspension: Adjustable Rear Camber arms - SPC Performance Steel tubular $165 set from SummitRacing. RTAB - PowerflexUSA $75 set Subframe bushings - AKG $190 Big tub of marine grease... Differential Bushings - AKG $120 Differential bolt - ? Upper Outer bearing (2ea) - AutohausAz OEM $37 Lower Outer bearing (2ea) - AutohausAz OEM $37 Lower Inner bushing (2ea) - Tischer OEM $13 Lower Inner bushings (2ea) should be included with the adjustable lower camber arms, correct? Motor Mounts - Vorshlag Poly $185 Tranny Mounts - UUC red mount $35 Rear swaybar mount reinforcement - AKG $35 Is it worth doing the swaybar reinforcements if I only changed the front swaybar? Well, thats all for now, did I miss any bushings or anything else that needs to be done while I'm in there? No swaybars yet... Thats about $1800 total with the cheaper camber arms if anyone is interested... Is it common to replace all the hardware during such a suspension overhaul. I am assuming hardware needs to be ordered separately from most/all of these parts. If anyone has part numbers for any of the hardware I would appreciate it, otherwise I will try and decipher RealOEM/Tischer drawings.... I have no idea how I'm going to get all this installed since I don't have a garage or any of the necessary tools etc., one thing at a time I guess... On a different note, in looking at the TCKline and Ground Control websites it appears that the S/A TruMatch coilovers and the GC #9 kit are both now $1850. However, the GC kit comes with camber plates while with the TCKline kit I would still need to buy Vorschlag plates for an extra $360 or so, it seems that there is a definite preference here for the Vorshlag plates over the GC plates. There seems to be a slight bias on the forum here in preference for the TCKline suspension... Is it worth the extra $360 dollars or so to get the TCKline set with the preferred Vorschlag camber plates for someone who will only rarely adjust the camber or should I go ahead and get the GC kit and save some money for something else, perhaps swaybars. Are there other differences/advantages to either kit that I am missing, the VVS springs on the TCKline kit seem preferred by some? If I can find a good used set of used coilovers of either brand this might be moot as I will get whichever set is available first. Subjective opinions appreciated Last edited by rln_21; Thu, Jan-14-2010 at 02:12:16 AM.

Wed, Jan-13-2010, 11:46:12 AM	#3
pbonsalb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,898 Reputation: 0	Good list. I have everything on it with a few substitutions. Try Bimmerschwag for the control arms -- I bought at $292 a set for Lemforders last fall. I found BMP/SPC all aluminum rear control arms at $225 a set on sale about a year ago (they come with the lower inner bushing and I recommend the standard rubber over rod end). Use synthetic marine grease and it still won't eliminate squeaks from the poly over the long term if you drive in winter. I used AKG's all poly diff mount set rather than Turner's aluminum/poly combination. I use Bimmerworld solid rubber motor mounts with UUC blacks and cups; someone I am in touch with uses the Vorshlag poly engine mounts and found annoying vibration with Vorshlag poly tranny mounts so he switched to UUC Race tranny mounts torqued correctly and is now happy. If going all out on the motor/trans mount combination, you may have to play around before you find a stiffness that makes you happy. A slightly higher engine rpm smooths things out, so if you are getting a tune, consider an 850-900 rpm idle. Also helps reduce or even eliminate rattle with a LTW flywheel, though with your stiff suspension, you will be feeling a lot more of everything than you are used to. I would not worry about replacing any hardware that is in good condition. I would do all the reinforcements you can while you are in there. Rear swaybar tabs (the angle shaped ones seem to be stronger), front differential bolt support brace from Mike Radowski/Maximum Psi, reinforced tranny cross member from Radowski/Maximum Psi, RTAB pocket reinforcements, front crossmember reinforcements. When you do the rear subframe bushings with Powerflex, research the heavier duty washers and alternative studs/bolts that some people in the Bimmerforums track section are using. In many cases, the supplied washers do cup and it would be easiest to do the job right the first time. I may have to go back in to redo this part on my car. Great time to do your oil pump nut if you have not. You may also want to order new parking brake cables to make the rear end work easier if you live in a climate that sees winter. Consider rear wheel bearings while you are in there since it is little extra labor. Consider new parking brake shoes while in there. It is such a big job that you will face a hefty labor bill unless you can do most of it yourself. I use the TCK SA with 450/500 springs and Vorshlag plates. After 18 months, I am considering adding some more spring rate. 500/550 maybe. All this will make for a very radical change and is really about all you might want to do for a street driven car. It is true that you don't need any of this stuff and that new stock will make your car drive like a new stock example, something most of us never experienced because we bought used, but which just about everyone who bought or tested new really liked. Last edited by pbonsalb; Wed, Jan-13-2010 at 01:47:35 PM.

Wed, Jan-13-2010, 11:55:03 AM	#4
Richardsperry 95 SC M3 Join Date: Aug 2005 Age: 56 Posts: 3,511 Reputation: 0 Location: Eldersburg, MD	What are you going to use the car for? Unless it's a track car, you are really spending money on stuff you don't need. (for a street car don't want...) Pass on the adjustable rear control arms, subframe bushings, poly motor and tranny mounts and diff mounts. OE is fine. (E21 or UUC tranny mounts) I'd get the UUC front lca bushings. Unless you have big honking antiroll bars, you really don't need the reinforcements. TC Kline is very nice. The Vorshlag plates are very nice, better than the GC ones. Neither are necessary on a street car. If it were me, I'd make sure my IRA was fully funded first. OOPS financial advice, no BMW content. __________________ No matter where you go, there you are!

Wed, Jan-13-2010, 11:57:58 AM	#5
fiveightandten He'll save children, but not the British children... Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,701 In the garage: '03 BMW 330CI '02 SUBARU WRX '98 BMW M3 Reputation: 0 Location: Connecticut	Buy your x-brace used for half the price. I got mine for $80 in the BFC classifieds. If you're making a big order from Tischer, get the tie rod ends there as well. Sometimes Pelican's parts are a little funky, and for the price, I wouldn't risk it. If you're using Powerflex Subframe bushings, see this thread: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=300992 Personally, i'd use OEM diff mounts. They're pretty robust. If you're going to use TMS, you may want to think about getting a diff brace. Don't forget a brand new front diff bolt if it doesn't come with the kit. __________________ -Nick Last edited by fiveightandten; Wed, Jan-13-2010 at 12:01:00 PM.

Wed, Jan-13-2010, 01:37:15 PM	#6
OahuMPower :FACEPALM: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 26,505 Reputation: 0 Location: San Diego	+1 on the UUC LCA bushings I've seen even stock m3 swaybars crack the rear swaybar mounts Powerflex subframe bushings= mcmaster washers/e90 front suspension bolt modification OEM for motor mounts if the car is going to be a street car +1 on doing it right once, and getting a good alignment afterwords __________________

Wed, Jan-13-2010, 08:31:15 AM	#2
jvit27 TEAM OEM Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,920 Reputation: 0 Location: Los Angeles	TCKline hardware quality is a little nicer than GC. Go OEM for motor mounts and subframe bushings. Turner's rear camber arms are a little easier to adjust, but the SPC's don't weigh much more and cost 1/2 the price. Try to do everything at once and give it a good alignment immediately after. No sense in doing things twice.. other than that, solid list.

Wed, Jan-13-2010, 01:53:32 PM	#7
camdinans3 Resident Rabble Rouser Join Date: Jul 2008 Age: 27 Posts: 13,139 Reputation: 0 Location: Charlestown NH	If you're going to get the turner rear camber arms (which i have) get the bushing end, the rod end will be too harsh. __________________ Andrew: AVUS 1995 ///95 Supercharged Club

Wed, Jan-13-2010, 03:50:28 PM	#8
WRXEATR The Frugal and Outspoken One Join Date: Feb 2008 Age: 26 Posts: 2,573 Reputation: 0 Location: Orlando (Metro West), FL	MANY of those parts are cheaper at autohausAZ.com just FYI. http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=296113

Thu, Jan-14-2010, 02:22:49 AM	#10
rln_21 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 86 Reputation: 0	Thanks for all the great input, list updated... Looks like I can just buy the AKG subframe mounts and avoid all the trouble with the Powerflex ones. I will probably just go with the AKG differential mounts as well. Didn't find control arms any cheaper from Bimmerschwag or AutohausAZ, but found cheaper tie rods. Is there a boot/dust cover that should be replaced with the tie rods or is the one in there probably fine? One thing I am still confused over, are the rear outer upper and lower bushings/bearings all the same part number or are they different? Does this part work for all four? 33321140345 Lemforder http://www.autohausaz.com/search/gro...nsion%20System Also, fiveightandten, you recommended a new front differential bolt, do you have a part number? Is that the upper holder bolt? http://www.bimmerschwag.com/partloca...layCatalogid=0 Last edited by rln_21; Thu, Jan-14-2010 at 02:36:47 AM.

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