Offset lollipops?

enderw88 · Fri, Jul-06-2012, 03:54:42 PM

While I was under the car the last few days I noticed something odd. The lollipops installed on the front control arms are highly offset. The center of the bearing is very off center toward the center of the car. They are both offset in the same way, so it looks intentional not like a failure. All the pictures of these bushings I have seen show them centered in the lollipop. Was this a 95 special thing, or have I found another PO mod surprise? I will try to get pictures tonight, but the forum will be down...

Herbert · Fri, Jul-06-2012, 04:15:05 PM

95's had the offset bushings, 96+ had centered. BMW changed the control arms in 96, to account of the different suspension geometry. Adding offset bushings adds a lot of caster to a 96+ m3, which is great, until your tires eat your fender liners

.

enderw88 · Fri, Jul-06-2012, 04:27:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbert

95's had the offset bushings, 96+ had centered. BMW changed the control arms in 96, to account of the different suspension geometry. Adding offset bushings adds a lot of caster to a 96+ m3, which is great, until your tires eat your fender liners

.

Thanks! Nothing to see here, move along!

white-hot · Fri, Jul-06-2012, 05:02:50 PM

Craig, perfectly normal. You worry too much, but with your PO, well....

I have the offset bushings on my coupe (98 BTW) and I have had zero issues with touching the liners. I run 255 RS3's on 8.5 DSII's with a 5mm spacer, no rubbing. There is a LOT of caster, almost 8 degrees in my last alignment.

enderw88 · Fri, Jul-06-2012, 05:04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white-hot

Craig, perfectly normal. You worry too much, but with your PO, well....

I have the offset bushings on my coupe (98 BTW) and I have had zero issues with touching the liners. I run 255 RS3's on 8.5 DSII's with a 5mm spacer, no rubbing. There is a LOT of caster, almost 8 degrees in my last alignment.

Doesn't that make it self-center incredibly hard? Seems like it would deaden steering feel as well.

white-hot · Fri, Jul-06-2012, 05:20:56 PM

It was like that when I got it so have no way to directly compare. I assure you there is plenty of feel and I do not notice any centering issues, certainly no more than with any other BMW I have owned. I will say that the car is incredibly stable at high speeds.

Herbert · Fri, Jul-06-2012, 09:37:17 PM

^^ This. I only had a problem with caster after I changed to coilovers that have camber plates, but no caster adjustment. I went from really close, to eating liners.

The fix to keep my THR Eyeball arms (solid '95 offset bushings) was changing to 95 control arms.

I noticed right off that with the loss if caster came lighter steering feel, and a noticeable drop in highspeed stability (haven't been over 80, but that is how much of a difference I noticed). So now I have to adjust my sway bar, shock settings and ride height to get it back to "solid".

If I cannot improve it, I will put the 96 CABs back in and just remove my liners. Next track day will be the decider.

white-hot · Fri, Jul-06-2012, 10:06:58 PM

My front wheels are definitely offset to the front of the wheel well, no doubt about it. I am about to get camber plates so I may trade the caster added at the bottom to caster added at the top. We shall see. All I can say is slaloms at the governor in 2nd are very fun! In addition, since I routinely tap 110-120 I can say that the car is so stable it is unnerving sometimes. She just feels rooted in the front. I would hate to minimize/lose that feel.

Fri, Jul-06-2012, 03:54:42 PM	#1
enderw88 Craig Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,619 In the garage: '95 BMW M3 Reputation: 0 Location: Tucson	Offset lollipops? While I was under the car the last few days I noticed something odd. The lollipops installed on the front control arms are highly offset. The center of the bearing is very off center toward the center of the car. They are both offset in the same way, so it looks intentional not like a failure. All the pictures of these bushings I have seen show them centered in the lollipop. Was this a 95 special thing, or have I found another PO mod surprise? I will try to get pictures tonight, but the forum will be down... __________________ 95 BMW M3 Current Project Cosmos Black, E46 6SP, VSL Rad, Stewart Water Pump, AA Header with 3" exhaust, aFe CAI, Euro HFM, 24lbs/hr injectors, unknown tune?, BW SS Brake Lines, Hawk HP+ Pads, M X-Brace, Mason Engineering Aluminum Strut Bar, MM Underpanel. To Do: Overhaul rear suspension, front suspension Tucson, AZ

Fri, Jul-06-2012, 04:15:05 PM	#2
Herbert I ///M Faster Join Date: Mar 2010 Age: 33 Posts: 343 Reputation: 0 Location: San Antonio	Re: Offset lollipops? 95's had the offset bushings, 96+ had centered. BMW changed the control arms in 96, to account of the different suspension geometry. Adding offset bushings adds a lot of caster to a 96+ m3, which is great, until your tires eat your fender liners . __________________ Bumper Sticker: "Real Racers Go Left AND Right" - So True Last performance car - e30s52

Fri, Jul-06-2012, 05:02:50 PM	#4
white-hot has left the building Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,518 In the garage: '98 BMW M3 Reputation: 0 Location: Huntsville	Re: Offset lollipops? Craig, perfectly normal. You worry too much, but with your PO, well.... I have the offset bushings on my coupe (98 BTW) and I have had zero issues with touching the liners. I run 255 RS3's on 8.5 DSII's with a 5mm spacer, no rubbing. There is a LOT of caster, almost 8 degrees in my last alignment.

Fri, Jul-06-2012, 05:20:56 PM	#6
white-hot has left the building Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,518 In the garage: '98 BMW M3 Reputation: 0 Location: Huntsville	Re: Offset lollipops? It was like that when I got it so have no way to directly compare. I assure you there is plenty of feel and I do not notice any centering issues, certainly no more than with any other BMW I have owned. I will say that the car is incredibly stable at high speeds.

Fri, Jul-06-2012, 09:37:17 PM	#7
Herbert I ///M Faster Join Date: Mar 2010 Age: 33 Posts: 343 Reputation: 0 Location: San Antonio	Re: Offset lollipops? ^^ This. I only had a problem with caster after I changed to coilovers that have camber plates, but no caster adjustment. I went from really close, to eating liners. The fix to keep my THR Eyeball arms (solid '95 offset bushings) was changing to 95 control arms. I noticed right off that with the loss if caster came lighter steering feel, and a noticeable drop in highspeed stability (haven't been over 80, but that is how much of a difference I noticed). So now I have to adjust my sway bar, shock settings and ride height to get it back to "solid". If I cannot improve it, I will put the 96 CABs back in and just remove my liners. Next track day will be the decider. __________________ Bumper Sticker: "Real Racers Go Left AND Right" - So True Last performance car - e30s52

Fri, Jul-06-2012, 10:06:58 PM	#8
white-hot has left the building Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,518 In the garage: '98 BMW M3 Reputation: 0 Location: Huntsville	Re: Offset lollipops? My front wheels are definitely offset to the front of the wheel well, no doubt about it. I am about to get camber plates so I may trade the caster added at the bottom to caster added at the top. We shall see. All I can say is slaloms at the governor in 2nd are very fun! In addition, since I routinely tap 110-120 I can say that the car is so stable it is unnerving sometimes. She just feels rooted in the front. I would hate to minimize/lose that feel.

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