[darkcrash21]

Yes I can prove that it does evaporate within the 8", but it depends on air temps.

Due to the fact that my nozzle is pre-BOV, when air temps are too cold (around ambient temp), the alcohol will not evaporate completely and will spill out of my BOV. I can hear it gushing out when not evaporated. Tested several times in the last week alone. This only happens towards peak boost, as I had my controller max out couple PSI before peak boost.

Once ambient air temp and of course compressed air temp raises (IAT logged at around 100F+), the alcohol does evaporate and will not gush out of my BOV, even at peak boost. Total difference in sound. I haven't been able to get water to spill out of my BOV once ambient temps were above 80F and the engine was completely warmed up.

There are pros and cons to this setup of course. If the blower's outlet temp is too high, then the alcohol will lower the temp and be completely evaporated before the heat exchanger. Which then the air temps can potentially be raised before it hits the cylinders. Yet to be tested of course as I haven't gone to the track after installing the system.

The whole debate on precooler again doesn't relate with our setup as there is no pooling of water inside the IC. You should know that in fact, the heat exchanger is filled with water, and even if water did pool between the fins, it would evaporate quickly due to the heat or be pushed out by the BOV.


You have posted 2 different articles, and they contradict each other. One says to "never mount and injector nozzle" pre-charger and the other says it's "of little concern with centrifugal superchargers".


"Centrifugal/Turbo: (Procharger, Vortech, Paxton, Powerdyne, Rotrex, etc.) Never mount an injector nozzle before a centrifugal supercharger or turbocharger compressor. Sending fluid through the compressor wheel that spins anywhere from 50,000rpm to 250,000rpm can erode the leading edges of the fine aluminum. Studies performed by SAAB, concluded that pre-turbo injection will over time cause cavitation on the turbo wheel leading edges."

"One major concern associated with pre-compressor injection is erosion of the impeller. This is only likely to occur when injecting solid stream of water at the impeller of a turbocharger or using an excessively large nozzle. Impeller erosion is highly unlikely with centrifugal supercharger as they spin at a considerably slower speed then turbochargers. Impeller erosion is of little concern with centrifugal superchargers. "

In the near future, i will be installed a kill switch to my system and will be conducting several logs with and without alcohol injection.

[Coinage]

I was looking more for data on 50/50 water/meth evaporation rates vs air temps, not just pooling in your manifold.

Are you running 50/50? Any idea of your actual SC output temps?

You are still eluding the fact it says to do the pre compressor injection only if it is done properly... Basically the same thing you are claiming is happening with yours, if it is evaporated completely.

[darkcrash21]

All documents say to install your nozzles at least 3" before the throttle plates. There is no data to show how long it takes to evaporate, especially due to the complexity: Nozzle size or flow rate, air temps and volume of air.

I am running 50/50 water/isopropyl alcohol as meth corrodes aluminum. However I've seen some running 70/30 water/meth safely for several years. No, I am not running a post compressor air temp sensor, which will be an addition as soon as I figure out where the hell i'm going to install the gauge for it. I already have 4 gauges, dont want another but I do need it...

I am not arguing which article is correct or incorrect, just the fact that they conflict with each other. I have seen a lot of documentation for both for and against pre-compressor. I have also seen pictures of compressor wheels from a supercharger that have both been eroded and that was completely unfazed by the water meth. Both systems were properly installed.

Problem with pre-compressor systems is that it is near impossible to evaporate the water/alcohol mix prior to entering the compressor, due to the air entering the compressor being ambient temps. Most documentation say it's beneficial to the system if the water/alcohol is not evaporated before the compressor (just atomized) and that it evaporates while compressed and leaving the compressor, as it's lowering the temps at the source of the problem (compressing of air). Resulting in lower air temps and also denser air, or a raise in boost pressure. Most beneficial for positive displacement chargers with little to no negative affects.

Problem is, I dont want it to evaporate completely. I would like some water to remain atomized, not as vapors, as it does help with detonation and cleaning of the valves inside the cylinder. I am also premixing my fuel, just like the rotary guys, with low ash 2 stroke engine oil, to ensure the alcohol isn't leaving the cylinders completely dry.

[Coinage]

Originally Posted by darkcrash21

All documents say to install your nozzles at least 3" before the throttle plates. There is no data to show how long it takes to evaporate, especially due to the complexity: Nozzle size or flow rate, air temps and volume of air.

I am running 50/50 water/isopropyl alcohol as meth corrodes aluminum. However I've seen some running 70/30 water/meth safely for several years. No, I am not running a post compressor air temp sensor, which will be an addition as soon as I figure out where the hell i'm going to install the gauge for it. I already have 4 gauges, dont want another but I do need it...

I am not arguing which article is correct or incorrect, just the fact that they conflict with each other. I have seen a lot of documentation for both for and against pre-compressor. I have also seen pictures of compressor wheels from a supercharger that have both been eroded and that was completely unfazed by the water meth. Both systems were properly installed.

Problem with pre-compressor systems is that it is near impossible to evaporate the water/alcohol mix prior to entering the compressor, due to the air entering the compressor being ambient temps. Most documentation say it's beneficial to the system if the water/alcohol is not evaporated before the compressor (just atomized) and that it evaporates while compressed and leaving the compressor, as it's lowering the temps at the source of the problem (compressing of air). Resulting in lower air temps and also denser air, or a raise in boost pressure. Most beneficial for positive displacement chargers with little to no negative affects.

Problem is, I dont want it to evaporate completely. I would like some water to remain atomized, not as vapors, as it does help with detonation and cleaning of the valves inside the cylinder. I am also premixing my fuel, just like the rotary guys, with low ash 2 stroke engine oil, to ensure the alcohol isn't leaving the cylinders completely dry.

My manifold has seen 50/50 through it for 5-6 years and has 0 corrosion.

I'm just going to let the pre compressor discussion go as it not relative to either of us.

We will see how my setup works soon. I'm running a t trim and 14psi. Should be able to get over 500rwhp on a mustang dyno with the box tune. Looking for 550+rwhp with a tune.

[darkcrash21]

Have you been using 50/50 water/meth through the heat exchanger? Meth does corrode aluminum, but like i said, at 70/30 it hasn't been an issue. I've heard of 50/50 not being an issue, but time will tell. My biggest concern was for pre-compressor. Was the VF kit available for that long already? Or have you just been spraying WM prior to supercharging?

You are running the stock VF tune with a T Trim?

Really hope your setup brings you lots of gains. Bit of warning, I've seen crazy labonte setups with little gains due to the fact of the IAT's location... just ensure your IAT is reading accurate air temps. With your setup, i'm thinking the IAT will read the cold WM as it's being sprayed really close to it. Which is bad since the ECU will advance the timing, thinking the air is really cold, but in actuality, the WM hasn't distributed properly before reaching the IAT.

I put in the system just to cool down the air, no other reason than that. I dont even like the fact that it runs richer. Before the alcohol, i was reading a constant 11.2 AFR, now i'm at 10.3-10.5 with isopropyl alcohol, with meth it will read richer...

[Coinage]

Yes, 50/50 through exchanger. I've personally used it like this for the last 2 years. I'm the 3rd owner of the kit, the original being DLSJ5. Maybe it's been 4 years with meth, can't remember when he sold it.

Think the VF kit came out in 04..?

Stock tune,V1 t trim, 2.62" carbonite pulley.

I'm going to monitor my IAT pretty close in the beginning, keep me updated on your IAT's as I'd like to have a ballpark idea of other IAT's. Obviously if my IAT's are showing me like 70 degrees I'll know I am too close to the nozzles.

Originally Posted by darkcrash21

Have you been using 50/50 water/meth through the heat exchanger? Meth does corrode aluminum, but like i said, at 70/30 it hasn't been an issue. I've heard of 50/50 not being an issue, but time will tell. My biggest concern was for pre-compressor. Was the VF kit available for that long already? Or have you just been spraying WM prior to supercharging?

You are running the stock VF tune with a T Trim?

Really hope your setup brings you lots of gains. Bit of warning, I've seen crazy labonte setups with little gains due to the fact of the IAT's location... just ensure your IAT is reading accurate air temps. With your setup, i'm thinking the IAT will read the cold WM as it's being sprayed really close to it. Which is bad since the ECU will advance the timing, thinking the air is really cold, but in actuality, the WM hasn't distributed properly before reaching the IAT.

I put in the system just to cool down the air, no other reason than that. I dont even like the fact that it runs richer. Before the alcohol, i was reading a constant 11.2 AFR, now i'm at 10.3-10.5 with isopropyl alcohol, with meth it will read richer...

[Silver46]

14 psi should make more then 500 with meth as the 9 psi the v2 vortech with the vf570 makes that.

[darkcrash21]

Originally Posted by Silver46

14 psi should make more then 500 with meth as the 9 psi the v2 vortech with the vf570 makes that.

It depends on what dyno, Coinage mentioned a mustang dyno, which usually dynos way less than a dynojet

[darkcrash21]

With stock tune and more boost, you would be running really rich! What do your AFRs look like?

Originally Posted by Coinage

Yes, 50/50 through exchanger. I've personally used it like this for the last 2 years. I'm the 3rd owner of the kit, the original being DLSJ5. Maybe it's been 4 years with meth, can't remember when he sold it.

Think the VF kit came out in 04..?

Stock tune,V1 t trim, 2.62" carbonite pulley.

I'm going to monitor my IAT pretty close in the beginning, keep me updated on your IAT's as I'd like to have a ballpark idea of other IAT's. Obviously if my IAT's are showing me like 70 degrees I'll know I am too close to the nozzles.

[Coinage]

It's pulling quite a bit of fuel in the LTFT but my AFR's at WOT go from 11.8 and tapers to about 11.2-3 up top. When it's really hot out they will get in the mid 10's.