[///sleeper]

Originally Posted by OahuMPower

larger footprints will do nothing....

I talked extensively with Mark McMahan (created/made the TCK 6pt bar, as well as www.rollcageguy.com)

You HAVE to run up the rocker panel for a rollbar/cage for ANY structural integrity in the E36. The floor pan no matter how big the footprint, will still rip the floor out, as it's literally paper thin.

I will post pictures of my setup soon. It's essentially setup for a full weld in cage, but I'm bolting in my bar to it

you didn't read my post well enough...and perhaps I didn't explain what I was asking well enough either. Anyway, by asking about reinforcing the mounting points (not a larger footprint) I was meaning to inquire into if he had thought about essentially using a base-plate design of the back half of a welded in cage, then bolting the bar in thru it. We're on the same page

[OahuMPower]

Originally Posted by ///sleeper

I was meaning to inquire into if he had thought about essentially using a base-plate design of the back half of a welded in cage, then bolting the bar in thru it. We're on the same page

so exactly what I did then?

[///sleeper]

Originally Posted by OahuMPower

so exactly what I did then?

I suppose...

After seeing the "Top Ten Devastating WRC Crashes" (or something like that) the other night as well as the video of that mustang whose bar punched right thru the floor I feel those bolt in bars are simply fancy harness-bars unless the mounting points are properly reinforced.

[m3_858]

First post updated.

[OahuMPower]

still waiting on pictures of HOW they actually reinforced the rollbar

[m3_858]

Originally Posted by OahuMPower

still waiting on pictures of HOW they actually reinforced the rollbar

Just metal plates. I keep hearing different stories but I'm going to rest easy knowing they've been building these things for years with 0 issues. Once I get more into heavy fast speed tracking, I'll have a full cage welded in. For auto-x and mild open track days this should do.

[OahuMPower]

Originally Posted by m3_858

Just metal plates. I keep hearing different stories but I'm going to rest easy knowing they've been building these things for years with 0 issues. Once I get more into heavy fast speed tracking, I'll have a full cage welded in. For auto-x and mild open track days this should do.

so a "basic" bolt in cage to the paper thin metal floor pan? There is nothing extra, just the base plates of the bar, and then the sandwich plates on the bottom...

what I figured

[m3_858]

Originally Posted by OahuMPower

so a "basic" bolt in cage to the paper thin metal floor pan? There is nothing extra, just the base plates of the bar, and then the sandwich plates on the bottom...

what I figured

That's pretty much it, every car that I've seen at shows, meets, etc has them installed this way. Is this a new concern since that mustang flipped and had his go through the floorboard?

[///sleeper]

not a new concern, that mustang that flipped just illustrates how a roll-bar with small base-plates is essentially an expensive, heavy, harness bar...if you are really concerned about adding additional roll-over protection then check the class rules (if you think you'll go into time trials or racing or something - I can't remember off the top of my head the min/max surface area of those plates), have plates welded onto the mounting points, and then bolt your bar through those points...I would talk to a cage builder or read thru the build threads on BF.c to get an idea of the thought and design that goes into a roll bar/cage.

[OahuMPower]

Originally Posted by m3_858

That's pretty much it, every car that I've seen at shows, meets, etc has them installed this way. Is this a new concern since that mustang flipped and had his go through the floorboard?

this is the problem.... you are talking SHOW cars, people who just see this "roll bar" that bolts right in, and has zero engineering background or "common sense". As sleeper illustrates, it's just a heavy harness bar at that point

Originally Posted by ///sleeper

not a new concern, that mustang that flipped just illustrates how a roll-bar with small base-plates is essentially an expensive, heavy, harness bar...if you are really concerned about adding additional roll-over protection then check the class rules (if you think you'll go into time trials or racing or something - I can't remember off the top of my head the min/max surface area of those plates), have plates welded onto the mounting points, and then bolt your bar through those points...I would talk to a cage builder or read thru the build threads on BF.c to get an idea of the thought and design that goes into a roll bar/cage.

100 sq in per plate

At any rate, I posted pictures, and explained why you need to not only weld plates on the floor, but ABSOLUTELY required to be tied into the rocker panels, as that is where you will get your strength from, NOT the floor.

The Mustang pictures and accident, just show and emphasize how un-safe, a basic bolt in roll bar is, without further modifications and reinforcements like I ended up doing

I completely agree though, that a bolt in bar, is better than nothing, and absolutely necessary to PROPERLY mount harnesses. If the roll-bar fails though, what happens to the harnesses attached to it, and then the person strapped in with those harness?