[King Tut]

Originally Posted by zebekias

After the 3.5 hours of test driving all I could think of was the M3. Despite the less than optimal iDrive (which I hear is improved in 2009 M3s) and lack of Brembos (can put the Brembo kit for $6k,) this M3 is an honest driving machine that likes to be driven.

Doesn't have Brembos yet can brake better than all the cars listed. Brembos are for show, the M3s brakes are for stopping.

[nullspace]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Doesn't have Brembos yet can brake better than all the cars listed. Brembos are for show, the M3s brakes are for stopping.

This has been discussed at length, but it's worth repeating that the distance for a single stop doesn't really mean anything. Yes, the M3 brakes work well, but they fade much quicker than they should. Many magazines have confirmed this; the M3 brakes fade on the track where better braking systems don't.

[zebekias]

The sales person asked me to do a HARD stop from 50mph or so - I was very impressed with the stock M3 brakes. I have been used to Brembo brakes on my track car, and I consider the M3 track worthy, so if I get the M3, the brembos are going on baby. That's why the 19" rims are a must (otherwise the brembos don't fit)

Originally Posted by nullspace

This has been discussed at length, but it's worth repeating that the distance for a single stop doesn't really mean anything. Yes, the M3 brakes work well, but they fade much quicker than they should. Many magazines have confirmed this; the M3 brakes fade on the track where better braking systems don't.

[juanpescado]

Originally Posted by nullspace

This has been discussed at length, but it's worth repeating that the distance for a single stop doesn't really mean anything. Yes, the M3 brakes work well, but they fade much quicker than they should. Many magazines have confirmed this; the M3 brakes fade on the track where better braking systems don't.

There are plenty of people that have posted taking their M3 to the track and have been very impressed with the stock brakes and had no brake fade issues, especially with track pads. What magazines have confirmed that M3 brakes fade? I have had cars and my first Duc had Brembos and while good brakes, it's becoming a fad that really isn't based in reality.

[nullspace]

Originally Posted by juanpescado

There are plenty of people that have posted taking their M3 to the track and have been very impressed with the stock brakes and had no brake fade issues, especially with track pads. What magazines have confirmed that M3 brakes fade? I have had cars and my first Duc had Brembos and while good brakes, it's becoming a fad that really isn't based in reality.

Edmunds had this to say (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121566):
"Our test car was fitted with competition-grade brake pads to cope with track use, but they still faded badly after a handful of hard laps."

Automobile Magazine (http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...uspension.html):
"Even though we had to pull into pit lane for a few minutes after each lap, brake fade set in after a few laps."

Driver's Republic has taken the M3 to the track several times and noted fade after a couple laps.

There are more but I'm too tired to find them right now.

[leletyM3]

I am very curious about testing the ISF

[cls552isf]

It is very simple, the m3 has 2 piston calipers up front and 1 piston in rear. It is impossible for its brakes to hang with the isf c63 or rs4 on the track for continuous laps. On the street the M3 brakes are fine. I used to have a new e36 M3 back in 97 and the brakes were fantastic, but that car weighed 3100lbs and I never took it to the track.

The 135's calipers on the m3's rotors might make an interesting setup!

[juanpescado]

There are lots of people who have taken their M3 to the track and experienced no fade plus numerous magazines with the same experience. Once again, we have people who are being magazine racers and I have to ask the same question. When you went to the track, did the brakes on your M3 fade? The answer is the people commenting don't own an M3 and have never tracked an M3. Do you really think BMW decided to put better brakes on the 135?

[zackwatt]

I find it odd that you think of the C63 and ISF's auto's as "lame" but you're smitten with DCT....probably because BMW calls it a "true manual".

Paddle shifting is the biggest marketing gimmick I've ever seen for a car. Make no mistake, DCT is just as "lame" as any automatic, if not lamer. It's for people that can't man up and buy a manual, but they want to pretend that they're all about the driving experience. BMW can take their .00000048374 seconds quicker and shove it.

As I see it, if you don't want a manual transmission then you need to stop kidding yourself and start looking at the C63 or the ISF.

And I found the ISF's autobox to be fantastic, as is the Benz's. I'm not sure why you'd say that the Lexus' interior quality was hot, yet the Merc's wasn't....the ISF smells like a boat factory/Japanese fish market inside and looks just like an IS250 (which wasn't particularly special to begin with), rubber molded dashboard, Toyota switchgear and all.

And with all of that said, I think you should definitely consider *GASP* the CTS-V. That is if you can deal with owning a American car, which many badge snobs around here seem to fear more than the apocolypse.

[blownS]

Altho, in my defense, I got the "lame" SMG b/c I had already "manned-up" and got a 6MT for my weekend car. The M3 was my daily, and my left leg just ain't what is used to be.

FWIW, I'm sure there are others out there who enjoy a manual, but sometimes prefer the comfort and ease of a DCT-style tranny for day to day use.