[4Dr_M3]

Curious

Does any company out there make an ITB kit for the US M3 ???

Just wondering ???

Or Will CAMS require valvetrain upgrade ??

On ITR's I'm allowed to run up to stg 2 before touching the valvetrain...


Thanks In Advance

[pbonsalb]

BMP Design used to sell an ITB kit.

Cams do not necessarily require valvetrain work. The popular 256/264 Shricks drop right in. I changed the valve stem seals when I installed them on my 99M3 at 60k miles and they have been in there for over 25k miles. More radical Sunbelt or Evosport cams may require some work, but you would have to check with those who have done them. Pablo Mazlumian, the author of numerous E36M3 articles in European Car magazine, is in the process of installing a set of Sunbelt street cams now. He wrote a couple of articles on Shrick installs, so his next article (assuming there is one) will be interesting.

The higher mileage the valvetrain, the more radical the cam, and the higher the rpm limit, the more likely it is that you will want headwork.

[4Dr_M3]

Well reason for this is that Uncle Sam for some odd reason is being very generous to me on my tax return this year. so I'm taking 2k out of that for the M3 ....

I plan on getting a Shark Injector so I figured if I can swing it to 7K I'll want some decent CAMS to take advantage of the extra 500 rpm.

Unfortunately where I live there is an insane amount of street "festivities" HAHA

[pbonsalb]

The SI will cost $300-$400, but make sure you get software for cams, not just a regular SI. Try Turner Motorsports or Eurosport. The cams will cost $1200 for Shricks and probably 50% more for Sunbelt or Evosport. For $1600, you will get about 10-15 rwhp from the cams and 10 rwhp from the SI, for maybe 25 rwhp total. Add in all the other bolt ons (CAI, M50 intake manifold, headers, track pipe, rear exhaust) and you could make as much as 265-270 rwhp with Shricks and probably 10 more with Sunbelt street cams and maybe 10 more on top of that with Sunbelt race or Evosport.

You could also buy a used Vortech supercharger kit for about $2800 and get about 300 rwhp. Here is one for sale:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1161930

[4Dr_M3]

**** man you just made my set-up :-)

glad that we are on the same page.... On my ITR that's pretty much how she runs all bolt ons + cams & tune.

Thanks man

BTW Any one have more info on the ITB's ???

[fiveightandten]

In stock form, the S52 is designed with the meat of it's power in the midrange. Breather mods can shift this upwards a bit, and if you improve airflow, you can squeeze a little more power out of it. The biggest restriction for overall airflow are the intake mani runners. Throwing in an OBD1 manifold (which has larger runners) will open up more air flow up top when the engine is really humming, but at the expense of some air velocity lower in the rev range. You'll loose some torque. It's noticeable. M50 (OBDI) manifold is cheap. But, throw that on with a CAI, and an exhaust on the car, and you'll gain a little bit of power in addition to shifting the powerband of the car up to the top end.

But, as with any breather mods, getting rid of one bottleneck leads you to the next one. The HFM. You can get yourself a 3.5" for improved flow through the intake (both the CAI and HFM will have to be 3.5"). So...CAI, HFM, intake manifold, and...oops, there's the next bottleneck, the TB.

So, you throw on a bigger TB. Or maybe even ITB's. Improved air flow, yes...but now we're getting into some serious money. Even with a bigger TB, HFM, M50 mani, and CAI...are the gains really worth the return? Some say yes, some say no. Now the bottleneck is the cylinder head itself. On to cams (which will help a bit yet again).

At ~$1200 + install, you've jumped into another price range. Power just doesn't come cheap with S52's. You CAN make the car faster. But you'll spend a pretty good amount of money doing so. My suggestion would be to set a goal for what you want out of the car and stick with it. If you want 3.5" piping through to the mani, do it up. Don't buy a stock sized CAI, then decide after the fact you want to go 3.5" on the HFM and have to replace both.

Intake + M50 + HFM + cams + exhaust + software will make the car quite a bit faster. Just add up the numbers for this stuff before you do it. IMO, too many E36 drivers are playing catchup with K20 powered Hondas and 1.8T VW's, who can throw a few handfuls of change under the hood and be up 40-50WHP. The E36 is an extremely rewarding car to drive, and a lot of people are VERY content putting that money into suspension mods, or learning how to actually drive the car...then just ignoring the next Si that steps to them at a stoplight with something to prove. There's 2 schools of thought here.


You can go big, go home, or somewhere inbetween. But, IMO...just save the cash and do it all at once so A) You're not buying parts twice, and B) You're not buying software more than once. And look at the numbers. If you're going to spend $3.5K on breather mods + cams + software...maybe scrape up another $1,500 and just go FI with a SC kit.
</novel>

[4Dr_M3]

Nick.. you make excellent points and your right it will add up to some serious money.

honestly I want her set up like my ITR. Bolt-ons cams

My I deal HP is 275 HP

She is a Daily Driver after all. I feel that 275 is not anything crazy specially when most new V6 powered sedans are in that range anyway.

This will be a long process by all means I own 3 cars and obviously cannot piss all my $$$ on cars.

Guys whatcha think :
* M50 manifold
* HFM
* ECIS Intake
* Shark Injector
* JVT headers
* UD Pulleys
* Clutch + Light W. Flywheel (when the stock ones wears out)
* CAMS can wait since those are the most $$$$ mod on the list
Will be close to 275 HP??????

* As far as suspension : All set, she's already on Bilsteins and she handles great.

[fiveightandten]

Originally Posted by 4Dr_M3

Nick.. you make excellent points and your right it will add up to some serious money.

honestly I want her set up like my ITR. Bolt-ons cams

My I deal HP is 275 HP

She is a Daily Driver after all. I feel that 275 is not anything crazy specially when most new V6 powered sedans are in that range anyway.

This will be a long process by all means I own 3 cars and obviously cannot piss all my $$$ on cars.

Guys whatcha think :
* M50 manifold
* HFM
* ECIS Intake
* Shark Injector
* JVT headers
* UD Pulleys
* Clutch + Light W. Flywheel (when the stock ones wears out)
* CAMS can wait since those are the most $$$$ mod on the list
Will be close to 275 HP??????

* As far as suspension : All set, she's already on Bilsteins and she handles great.

Does ECIS make a 3" intake for the E36? I'm not seeing the specification on their website.

If you go big and go cams and full breather mods, forget the shark injector unless you're getting the cams it's designed for. Their cam tune is over $1100. Get a custom tune (best) for that kind of cash, or go with the software from whoever you wind up getting cams with.

Do some reading on LTW flywheels. You can't really run a stock M3 clutch with them due to the solid hub (no springs). Most of the LTW FW kits come with the E34 M5 clutch and pressure plate, which weighs more than the M3 one. You have to go down to at least a 12lb FW to have any weight loss. At that weight, you'll have gear noise at idle, which you may not be crazy about with a DD. You can quell it with the 'potion' of different tranny fluids though, read up on the pros and cons.

Skip the pullies, IMO. Gains are negligible, and it's more important to have your accessories running as designed.

I'm not sure how those headers flow in comparison to stock. But the M3 exhaust is in 2 parts. Headers will shove the bottleneck to the front half of the exhaust (cats, ect.). I'm not sure what (if any) kind of gains you'll see from headers.

In terms of power, you'll want to talk to Andrew (The Stig), as he went through most of the mods you're listing. He has cams in his car, and most of those breather mods. He's also posted a video of his car vs an M3 with just software. It's a good deal faster, though his setup wasn't cheap by any means. Some guys on BFC also have similar setups. 275 at the crank? Sure. 275WHP? Not sure about that one...talk to Andrew or someone else that's done it.

[4Dr_M3]

Damn you know your stuff....

The clutch thing you lost me on... They old guys I bought my car from had a BMW dealer put on a new clutch slip says $ 1,800 ! So I guess It's not going for a while. so I'll have plenty of time to read up on that.

I guess by March or April I should have
M50 Mani
HFM
Intake ( ECIS if possible ) if not another 3" intake

SO you say no headers heh? M3 guys N/A dont use headers ??
I'm still in Honda mode here..lol

[pbonsalb]

Buy the parts in the Eurosport cam kit that you need to complete the package

http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/cam_kits.html

and you get 250+ rwhp

http://www.eurosporthighperformance....o/sb52cams.gif

It will take headers and a track pipe to get to 265+ rwhp and you may need a different tune. If you want 275 rwhp, you will probably have to look at Sunbelt or Evosport cams. Not sure of any kit or tuning available for the Evosport cams:

http://www.evosport.com/product/prod...NG.CAM.M52.201

but Bimmerworld claims to have one for the Sunbelts with tuning from Active Autowerks that makes 310 crank hp (without a trackpipe) -- that would get you pretty close to your goal:

http://store.bimmerworld.com/shared/...t=products.asp

You will spend $3350 to get 265-270 rwhp (using 15% for drivetrain loss). Spend some more on headers, trackpipe and rear exhaust and you may get another 20 rwhp. The trackpipe requires tuning, so if you are going that way, get the software with the kit so you don't have to buy it twice.

Or you could buy that used supercharger kit and get 300 rwhp for $2800 . . . .