[Cheeze]

Originally Posted by maranelloman

Meadowlands parking lot just after a big snow?

Insane fun, but not the practice on pavement I'm looking for. Trying to simulate what I might encounter on the track in high-speed turns, like turn 10 (I think) at VIR, the downhill lefter immediately after the climbing esses. Not in terms of the actual geometry of that turn obviously, just in terms of practicing oversteer at the speeds you'd go around turns like that in the dry.

[maranelloman]

IMO you're better off doing that in snow in a parking lot than on dry asphalt at speed. Everythign is magnified in snow, even at low speeds, and there is little to no risk.

[lagunasecablue]

I think the skills at managing oversteer are all pretty similar. What works on say, a gokart, or in a parking lot at 30mph, will help you at 70mph.

The inputs are just much more delicate at higher speeds, the caster in the alignment will help but you need to be on your toes to not make an oversteer situation worse than it is by not recognizing it. It needs to be second nature... i.e. feel the rear stepping (even before it actually pitches) and throw in a little correction.

Try outdoor gokarting. Not the indoor stuff or kiddie outdoor stuff, but 50-60mph Tag gokarts... your reflexes will be SHARP.

[maranelloman]

Originally Posted by lagunasecablue

I think the skills at managing oversteer are all pretty similar. What works on say, a gokart, or in a parking lot at 30mph, will help you at 70mph.

The inputs are just much more delicate at higher speeds, the caster in the alignment will help but you need to be on your toes to not make an oversteer situation worse than it is by not recognizing it. It needs to be second nature... i.e. feel the rear stepping (even before it actually pitches) and throw in a little correction.

Try outdoor gokarting. Not the indoor stuff or kiddie outdoor stuff, but 50-60mph Tag gokarts... your reflexes will be SHARP.

^^ good point ^^

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by lagunasecablue

I think the skills at managing oversteer are all pretty similar. What works on say, a gokart, or in a parking lot at 30mph, will help you at 70mph.

The inputs are just much more delicate at higher speeds, the caster in the alignment will help but you need to be on your toes to not make an oversteer situation worse than it is by not recognizing it. It needs to be second nature... i.e. feel the rear stepping (even before it actually pitches) and throw in a little correction.

Try outdoor gokarting. Not the indoor stuff or kiddie outdoor stuff, but 50-60mph Tag gokarts... your reflexes will be SHARP.

+1,

High speed oversteer is normally not like low speed oversteer due to high torque, on-throttle situations...it's usually related to balance (technique). Corrections need to be subconscious.

The problem with high speed oversteer is when you over-correct or "jerk" the wheel or throttle in reaction. At higher speeds there is less time to correct mistakes.....feed in adjustments calmly, but deliberately, as it helps to keep the car balanced.

Putnam Park is a great place to go for huge run-off room.....let's see...Turn 1, Turn 4, and Turn 5 all offer plenty of run-off room. Hell, the whole track has tons of run off room except for the last 2 corners (9&10), so you literally have to try to hit something, but there are some fast, tricky, off-camber corners. It's ideal if you want to drive on the limit without fear of bending metal, or if you have a really nice car that you want to learn to drive quickly.

Since BMP will now be my home track, I'm going to miss all that wide open space....

[elbert]

Originally Posted by phil97m3Blue

Insane fun, but not the practice on pavement I'm looking for. Trying to simulate what I might encounter on the track in high-speed turns, like turn 10 (I think) at VIR, the downhill lefter immediately after the climbing esses. Not in terms of the actual geometry of that turn obviously, just in terms of practicing oversteer at the speeds you'd go around turns like that in the dry.

If you do happen to get oversteer in Turn 10, my advice is to put both feet in. I've lost count the number of cars wrecked on the left hand wall where the driver tried to save it from a spin.

You also might want to think why someone would get high speed oversteer in Turn 10.
From what I've seen, most people getting oversteer there are those forcing the car into the turn, trying to hit the apex when in reality they missed the turn in point. Which really more of a n00b mistake, considering how much room there is on corner exit.
Something to think about.

[sips56]

Track event that gives you access to a skid pad??

[Cheeze]

Originally Posted by maranelloman

IMO you're better off doing that in snow in a parking lot than on dry asphalt at speed. Everythign is magnified in snow, even at low speeds, and there is little to no risk.

I don't disagree, just looking for the practice at-speed. I try to take my car out in the snow at every opportunity.

Originally Posted by elbert

If you do happen to get oversteer in Turn 10, my advice is to put both feet in. I've lost count the number of cars wrecked on the left hand wall where the driver tried to save it from a spin.

You also might want to think why someone would get high speed oversteer in Turn 10.
From what I've seen, most people getting oversteer there are those forcing the car into the turn, trying to hit the apex when in reality they missed the turn in point. Which really more of a n00b mistake, considering how much room there is on corner exit.
Something to think about.

Good points, but again I was just giving an example of the speeds I want to be practicing oversteer at as opposed to the 'why' oversteer is occuring. I hear you on the both feet in / not forcing it though. I took that turn a little too fast one time and instead of forcing it in I decided to just drive straight off the outside of the turn (and down the big hill... ).


Putnam Park - great info, a little far away for me. Good info for other members though, keep them coming even if they're not in the NorthEast.

I'll have to look into some karting events. Any noob FAQ links or anything? Do those types of events generally allow you to rent karts or do you have to bring your own?

I got this PM from a member regarding an auto-x at Hershey that may offer some higher-speed stuff than a standard auto-x:

Phil, I would check out central Porsche Club's website, cpa-pca, they host what is advertised as the largest autox east of the mississipi, it's held at one of the Hershey Park parking lots. They host about four or five a year, last week's was very long sweeping turns for an autox, I was often countering oversteer. My daughter, who I instruct at HDPDs, does these with me to help her with exactly what you are talking about. Any car type is permitted, and you don't have to be a PCA member to attend. If your're not a PCA member it will cost about $40.00. Very informal and relatively speaking, you get a lot of track time, six runs, then they ask you to flag for another heat

Appreciate all the input so far.

[NPalacioM3]

Originally Posted by phil97m3Blue

. Trying to simulate what I might encounter on the track in high-speed turns, like turn 10 (I think) at VIR, the downhill lefter immediately after the climbing esses.

That is one hell of a turn. Too bad the rest of the track is kinda boring.... but man that is a corner that seperates the men from the boys. I would really hate to see what would happen if you lost it there. Eeek!

Originally Posted by lagunasecablue

Try outdoor gokarting. Not the indoor stuff or kiddie outdoor stuff, but 50-60mph Tag gokarts... your reflexes will be SHARP.

I agree. Go find a good kart place nearby or suck it up and buy a used and decent (you dont need anything crazy) 80cc kart for 1K or so. Take it along with some cones to a large, vacant office parking lot on the weekends. Setup the cones and jump in the kart. Many professional race drivers keep sharp by driving karts in the off season, they definitely will keep you on your toes. Great practice, I love karts.

[Cheeze]

Originally Posted by NPalacioM3

That is one hell of a turn. Too bad the rest of the track is kinda boring.... but man that is a corner that seperates the men from the boys. I would really hate to see what would happen if you lost it there. Eeek!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqfv2tYhkDk

(he only oversteered because he apexed about 2 days early and ran off the tarmac...but same consequences obviously!)

I agree. Go find a good kart place nearby or suck it up and buy a used and decent (you dont need anything crazy) 80cc kart for 1K or so. Take it along with some cones to a large, vacant office parking lot on the weekends. Setup the cones and jump in the kart. Many professional race drivers keep sharp by driving karts in the off season, they definitely will keep you on your toes. Great practice, I love karts.

Any good karting forums or classified links? I'm a noob to karts...