[LightWerkz]

Nice video you have some skills

[alanbmoore]

Originally Posted by phil97m3Blue

Is there a special track or skidpad around the north east (or anywhere) that would allow for practicing high-speed oversteer - i.e. HUGE runoff areas on high-speed turns?

I did a quick search for drift events in your area, and came up with this, might be worth watching for events:
http://www.driftnasty.com/index.php?...f6bb96fce22e8a
http://www.phillydrift.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=318
http://www.driftpa.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=44

This is a WAY different crowd than you're probably used to at track days. But once you get used to all the turbo blow-off valves stuck through the hoods and missing bumpers , it's a great way to get drift practice on a track.

[wgf3]

I agree that practicing car control at low speeds is an excellent way to develop a tactile relationship with your car and limit the consequences. But I don't agree that those learned responses can transfer directly to a high speed environment. I have done enough drifting -intentional and unintentionaly- to believe that that particular envelop of speed, yaw, and driver response could be tragic at higher speeds. Places where I used to run flat out in my 320i ITB car turn into noticable corners in my current, much faster car. Turn 10 at VIR, which has been cited, is a breath taking corner that has a high risk/reward ratio. If you have the tail hung out there before the crest and you have not early apexed, you have a problem. Your entry speed or angle or both needs adjustment. But a little full throttle oversteer once you are pointed down hill works great. I assume that we are talking here about minor to moderate oversteer that is most easily controled by throttle modulation rather than significant steering input. I believe that yaw angles common in drifting would be hazerdous at high speeds. If drifting type angles were the fast way around the corners, wouldn't there be clouds of smoke everywhere during a race? There always other corners at tracks with lower speeds where oversteer can be induced for practice. Slip angles that roughly match the tire design slip angle are about as far as you want to go at high speeds. High speed driving events and club racing (or other) driving schools are a good place to look for the edge of the envelop with your particular car setup. Once you are comfortable out there on the edge, you can start working on the car to push it's limit out a little further. Final obersavation: if someone thinks VIR is boring, they aren't going fast enough. Cheers!

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by wgf3

I agree that practicing car control at low speeds is an excellent way to develop a tactile relationship with your car and limit the consequences. But I don't agree that those learned responses can transfer directly to a high speed environment. I have done enough drifting -intentional and unintentionaly- to believe that that particular envelop of speed, yaw, and driver response could be tragic at higher speeds. Places where I used to run flat out in my 320i ITB car turn into noticable corners in my current, much faster car. Turn 10 at VIR, which has been cited, is a breath taking corner that has a high risk/reward ratio. If you have the tail hung out there before the crest and you have not early apexed, you have a problem. Your entry speed or angle or both needs adjustment. But a little full throttle oversteer once you are pointed down hill works great. I assume that we are talking here about minor to moderate oversteer that is most easily controled by throttle modulation rather than significant steering input. I believe that yaw angles common in drifting would be hazerdous at high speeds. If drifting type angles were the fast way around the corners, wouldn't there be clouds of smoke everywhere during a race? There always other corners at tracks with lower speeds where oversteer can be induced for practice. Slip angles that roughly match the tire design slip angle are about as far as you want to go at high speeds. High speed driving events and club racing (or other) driving schools are a good place to look for the edge of the envelop with your particular car setup. Once you are comfortable out there on the edge, you can start working on the car to push it's limit out a little further. Final obersavation: if someone thinks VIR is boring, they aren't going fast enough. Cheers!

Great post that differentiates the art of drifting from the advanced skill required to manage a car at various slip angles to squeeze out those last fractions of speed on a road course.

[Reach]

Originally Posted by jph28

Can we please stop posting VIR crashes

Hah! Its unsettling me for the late Feb school as well.

[wgf3]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Great post that differentiates the art of drifting from the advanced skill required to manage a car at various slip angles to squeeze out those last fractions of speed on a road course.

Thanks for the kind words.

[alanbmoore]

Originally Posted by wgf3

If you have the tail hung out there before the crest and you have not early apexed, you have a problem.

Certainly, if you've practiced drifting on a flat surface, then an elevation change will be something new.

Originally Posted by wgf3

I assume that we are talking here about minor to moderate oversteer that is most easily controled by throttle modulation rather than significant steering input. I believe that yaw angles common in drifting would be hazerdous at high speeds. If drifting type angles were the fast way around the corners, wouldn't there be clouds of smoke everywhere during a race?

Wow. Maybe I didn't make my point clearly. Drifting is a good way to learn car control, especially beyond the limit. It's not the fast way around the track. Oversteer can certainly require significant steering input, especially at yaw angles where a spin is likely... UNLESS the driver has practice recovering from a yaw. Which is where drifting, IMHO, is a good learning tool.

Are we on the same page now?

[wgf3]

Hey, same page all along. Drifting is a great way to learn car control- that was the first sentence in my post: "I agree that practicing car control at low speeds is an excellent way to develop a tactile relationship with your car". My hat's off to those drifting guys- great car control- I love watching them do their thing. But the emphasis in drifting is a setup and style to create oversteer and a slide whereas I think that the setup and style for a road course is, by and large, designed not to create oversteer and a slide. My overall comment was responding to what sounded like a desire to learn to deal with high speed oversteer in more of a track environment (rather than drifing environment) where the vehicle dynamics and consequences can be significantly different. We're cool.

[alanbmoore]

Right, I gotcha. When the OP mentioned oversteer, I was thinking he meant after the rear end broke loose - at which point it's damage control. You were talking about optimizing slip angles, which is certainly higher up on the driving skill pyramid.

Both are way fun!

[ventura_328Ci]

High speed oversteer scares the living Bejesus out of me.. Learning to do some controlled drifting is also something I'd love to do. The practice handling such situations would definitely give me more confidence around high speed corners.