[Happy Hazard]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Here's what bugs me. I have gotten many complaints about the general attitude that has been predominant around this section for quite some time now. I have been told many times by many people that newbies -- especially -- are afraid to post a question in fear they'll be shot down, belittled or otherwise made to feel completely segregated and unwelcome. This is even more evident when a new member obviously demonstrates a lack of general mechanical knowledge. Those are usually the worst, when people told them they should sell their car because they couldn't work on it themselves.

Boy, that sure sounds like a place I would want to hang out; some place I go to for help to instead be turned around and pushed away because I don't meet the standards of the older and more experienced members.

Furthermore, the amount of personal attacks that have been over looked here is staggering. I am appalled by the number of times I have seen members -- especially the new ones -- be called names because they were incorrect about something. Instead of politely offering a correction, a lot of members here will instead call the member a 'retarded douche bag who should sell their car and off themselves' and then reluctantly decide to correct them, but try to sound nice about it at the same time. This type of behavior is rampant here and it's despicable.

To put it simply, the atmosphere here is no longer friendly unless you're already attuned to it. It's hostile. It's almost as if the OG's (as it's put) have formed their own click and anyone new who trespasses without proper credentials has the hounds released on them until they are driven away or manage to survive the attack.

It has been said that it's all about friendship and knowledge sharing here; however, how is this possible when new people cannot gain access to this circle without being hazed and surviving?

Bingo.

Ive stated it before, you have to have thick skin to post here. People getting hazed for having vert's, 95's or whatever else didnt fall into line with the clique were talked down to, instead of offered advice about whatever they were actually posting about.

The clique was old, its all the same people who seem to have a problem here. If they want to leave, so be it. The hostility will be gone, and will allow for other members to speak freely without fear of retribution.

The people who actually DO give a **** and feel like posting up their knowledge will continue to do so, the rest will leave and im ok with that.

Harrassment shouldnt be condoned here, and im glad that the mods have taken action against it. Its a public car forum, not a private one, and equal opportunity should be provided to all who post here.

[lightswitch_77]

Originally Posted by fiveightandten

Internet. Serious business.

But, seriously, in all reality...it means a lot to a lot of people here. Not only are a lot of us pretty close...this is a place that saves people a lot of time, money, and hassles with the knowledge it provides. It's a social outlet as well. When you've gotten accustomed to the way things are, and then all of a sudden there's an upheaval...yeah, people are likely to get serious about it.

Or something like that. In reality, we're all pretty laid back guys for the most part.

Good to know 5,8 & 10. Take care

[rschev]

I didn't read through all 16 pages , just some of the first few posts from the OP , and couldn't agree more . I'm a what you would call ' Newb ' here , and i don't think Ive seen more poorly guided advice , and misinformation at any other automobile forum i have been a part of . Most of the valuable information I have obtained here , has been in a link to a " bimmerforums " thread .

Now , if I need to know what wheels are the coolest , and which color combo is ">" than mine , i know where to look .

[slickfast]

Nick,

As a newb to the forum, I hope I can one day come to a point where you are; contributing more than I take in. I'm still learning so much, and it's great to have you and other experienced members around to learn from... your threads and posts have helped me in more ways that you would have ever thought.

Off the forum and in person, I kind of thought I was too young to be hanging out with you guys, but I was completely proven wrong. I don't know what I was expecting, but it definitely wasn't the kind of personal interaction I came to experience. Thanks for all the help you've given, and stay in touch bro... we still have that photoshoot remember? Ben's comin too, nexens and all.

[Maginnovision]

I just want to say, I lurk here alot. Most of the "O.G." are not people I worry about too much. I know enough about cars and individuality to easily be able to ignore alot of the negative things they say. But there are so many more people who would feel they're being attacked. That being the first thing you get from a forum you join... Not cool. Good thing I lurked for so long before joining, and lurked more before posting. Most forums have rules, and infractions. Friends or not you should follow the rules, or take it to PM's or anywhere else you don't have to worry about it.

[thedood]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Here's what bugs me. I have gotten many complaints about the general attitude that has been predominant around this section for quite some time now. I have been told many times by many people that newbies -- especially -- are afraid to post a question in fear they'll be shot down, belittled or otherwise made to feel completely segregated and unwelcome. This is even more evident when a new member obviously demonstrates a lack of general mechanical knowledge. Those are usually the worst, when people told them they should sell their car because they couldn't work on it themselves.

Boy, that sure sounds like a place I would want to hang out; some place I go to for help to instead be turned around and pushed away because I don't meet the standards of the older and more experienced members.

Furthermore, the amount of personal attacks that have been over looked here is staggering. I am appalled by the number of times I have seen members -- especially the new ones -- be called names because they were incorrect about something. Instead of politely offering a correction, a lot of members here will instead call the member a 'retarded douche bag who should sell their car and off themselves' and then reluctantly decide to correct them, but try to sound nice about it at the same time. This type of behavior is rampant here and it's despicable.

To put it simply, the atmosphere here is no longer friendly unless you're already attuned to it. It's hostile. It's almost as if the OG's (as it's put) have formed their own click and anyone new who trespasses without proper credentials has the hounds released on them until they are driven away or manage to survive the attack.

It has been said that it's all about friendship and knowledge sharing here; however, how is this possible when new people cannot gain access to this circle without being hazed and surviving?

It actually reminds me of high school. Jocks vs nerds... etc.


====

Oh, in regards to the comments about our for sale section.

The reason why E36 and E90 have their own subforum is because this forum is predominately E46 oriented. The primary F/S section is filled with mainly E46 oriented sales. It is logically and logistically easier to separate the smaller from the larger.

Very well put, Trevor.

As someone who's been a regular poster & has seen the forum go through it's 'cycle' for a few years now, I must say it has certainly reached an all time low. I used to be a part of those 'strong handed folk' that straightened out new members, but the E36 subforum has gotten out of control. I partook in the locker room nonsense for quite a while, but it's just degraded to such immaturity that I feel like I'm losing brain cells every time I 'step foot' in the section (particularly the OT thread, of course).

I'm all for having fun, whether it's conversing with friends or getting to know others who share a common interest, but this is an E36 M3 forum first & foremost. If you're going to come here to mess around, please bring something relevant to the table as well. I would love to see a revival of this forum with deeper, more technical discussions about our cars. If you're not interested in discussing our cars, then it would probably be best to stick to other means of communication.

I don't mean to come across as pessimistic, but I just haven't been able to enjoy the forum like I used to for the reasons stated. It doesn't take a huge effort from everyone--just take an extra second to consider if what you're about to type is really the right thing to say.

[rcstings]

I have learned a ton from this place and am extremely thankful to those who put the knowledge out there. It has saved me a ton of money, and took me from knowing absolutely nothing about these cars to having a solid foundation of the basics. Anyway, sad to see and hopefully everyone will migrate back after all the drama blows over. to those who shared their knowledge and expertise!

[Chaosy]

Whoa whoa whoa...

I really have no idea what all the fuss is about, but it sounds like it boils down to a few issues:

1) Old timers being extremely tight-knit
2) Old timers being bored when there's nothing to talk about
3) New posters asking questions that have either been answered before or are just flat out ridiculous

I have to admit that after joining the forums, I got flamed (in the FS section nonetheless). It didn't give me the best impression of this forum, but after browsing through all the sections, I realized I liked the e36 section the most. I didn't really post on here because I was still deciding between brands of cars to buy and if I did get a M3, which version, but the fact that everyone here knew each other on such a personal level made me seriously love the e36 more than anything else.

An online forum is a community of sorts, and you're always going to have a community of core members. The issue is you're always going to have people floating in and out of that community, sometimes just to ask a silly question. Being a poster on a variety of forums past and present and as a moderator of forums, I do not like it when people either don't search or ask the most ridiculous question. What you have to remember is that their question is important to them (maybe ), and it takes you just as much effort to write a simple, "this has been discussed before, please use the search function" as it is to write a flame post.

It's true that as these cars become cheaper, more and more people are going to afford them, and an influx of younger buyers are going to come in here. Does it detract from your core group? No... it just means you'll have more annoying questions to deal with. If you know they're young and annoying, then why not just be more accepting? You guys who have been here a long time are role-models, and because of that you (and everyone) should act like that.

Please don't take my post the wrong way, it's only what I'm getting from the last 16 pages since I don't really know what's going on. As far as OT posts are concerned, this is a e36 section first and foremost. When I moderate forums, I always have to move threads around that are OT to the correct forum. It's not a fun job and I don't get paid for it, but I did it because I cared for the forum. I'm sure the mods feel the same way: It's not a matter of bringing the hammer down, but it's just a simple matter of keeping it focused. I've never minded if a particular thread went OT, as long as the thread was started with good intentions.

Just my $0.02.

[OahuMPower]

Originally Posted by rschev

I didn't read through all 16 pages , just some of the first few posts from the OP , and couldn't agree more . I'm a what you would call ' Newb ' here , and i don't think Ive seen more poorly guided advice , and misinformation at any other automobile forum i have been a part of . Most of the valuable information I have obtained here , has been in a link to a " bimmerforums " thread .

Now , if I need to know what wheels are the coolest , and which color combo is ">" than mine , i know where to look .

you've got to be kidding me

Originally Posted by Chaosy

I really have no idea what all the fuss is about, but it sounds like it boils down to a few issues:

1) Old timers being extremely tight-knit
2) Old timers being bored when there's nothing to talk about
3) New posters asking questions that have either been answered before or are just flat out ridiculous

this is spot on

[MFahrer]

Originally Posted by thedood

Very well put, Trevor.

As someone who's been a regular poster & has seen the forum go through it's 'cycle' for a few years now, I must say it has certainly reached an all time low. I used to be a part of those 'strong handed folk' that straightened out new members, but the E36 subforum has gotten out of control. I partook in the locker room nonsense for quite a while, but it's just degraded to such immaturity that I feel like I'm losing brain cells every time I 'step foot' in the section (particularly the OT thread, of course).

I'm all for having fun, whether it's conversing with friends or getting to know others who share a common interest, but this is an E36 M3 forum first & foremost. If you're going to come here to mess around, please bring something relevant to the table as well. I would love to see a revival of this forum with deeper, more technical discussions about our cars. If you're not interested in discussing our cars, then it would probably be best to stick to other means of communication.

I don't mean to come across as pessimistic, but I just haven't been able to enjoy the forum like I used to for the reasons stated. It doesn't take a huge effort from everyone--just take an extra second to consider if what you're about to type is really the right thing to say.

I've been around for a while myself. I read the forum regularly but obviously post rarely and I agree with this.