Sen. DeMint invokes bible on hate crime bill.

Dark Apostle · Thu, Jun-25-2009, 07:53:39 PM

Let's pass a law making it illegal to not like someone, then everyone will get along just great. Just like in grade school, right?

SteDevote · Thu, Jun-25-2009, 07:55:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porshapwr

This is actually a very common question by religious people because they expect the answer to be "religion" (not you per se Ste, but I've seen it a lot).

As I've stated before, there are numerous studies that clearly show morality in children as young as 18 months - well before they understand any concepts of religion or god.

It's inherent - mankind DOES know right from wrong to some degree from birth.

Where does this inherent knowledge come from? How does it get in there?

Not arguing for or against anything, just curious.

P4lm3r · Thu, Jun-25-2009, 07:58:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteDevote

Where does this inherent knowledge come from? How does it get in there?

Not arguing for or against anything, just curious.

Just shooting in the dark here, but through the course of evolution, people that couldn't adapt to society were probobly shunted and therefor didn't reproduce. Only those with the strongest characteristics to be good for the group were the ones to breed.

Jonny Midnight · Thu, Jun-25-2009, 08:04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenfifteen

Point taken, but I haven't heard anything in the bill that raises my hackles. Not calling you out, just wondering what you object to.

My first concern would be the literal interpretation that any and all "sexual orientations" are protected under law. I think it needs to be more specific.

My second concern would be that a person's freedom of speech, even if condemning certain sexual orientations, could be linked and found to contribute to someone delivering bodily harm to a person of that orientation.

Dark Apostle · Thu, Jun-25-2009, 08:07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porshapwr

This is actually a very common question by religious people because they expect the answer to be "religion" (not you per se Ste, but I've seen it a lot).

As I've stated before, there are numerous studies that clearly show morality in children as young as 18 months - well before they understand any concepts of religion or god.

It's inherent - mankind DOES know right from wrong to some degree from birth.

I believe very young children learn from watching their parents. I don't believe they understand right and wrong, but action and reaction. Babies love positive reactions and will repeat the behavior that got the positive reaction.

The other problem i have with what you've said, is that I've seen a 2 yr old walk up to another child, hit them in the face and take their toy. Where did the morality go?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenfifteen

So we're curbing "individual freedoms" by codifying harsher penalties for people who beat up gays? I'm confused.

I believe that this is the issue:

Quote:

"Having reviewed cases as an appellate judge, I know that when the legislature has the chance to include a definition and refuses, then what we look at is the plain meaning of those words," explained Gohmert. "The plain meaning of sexual orientation is anything to which someone is orientated. That could include exhibitionism, it could include necrophilia (sexual arousal/activity with a corpse) ... it could include urophilia (sexual arousal associated with urine), voyeurism. You see someone spying on you changing clothes and you hit them, they've committed a misdemeanor, you've committed a federal felony under this bill. It is so wrong."

bmwMpower1 · Thu, Jun-25-2009, 08:09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strict_rude_boy

dis legislation straight from babylon be real crossy me braddas. babylon be dictating but i only giving hard ears.

Is that you Adam Jackson Cargile of 5818 Summer Lake Drive Baton Rouge, LA?

cherryS3R · Thu, Jun-25-2009, 08:15:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3 Sedan JPS

bible = book written by different people at all different times, therefore, probability of truth being there = NONE!

this is pretty sad cause i'm catholic too

I agree with this to some extent, and I'm Christian. I don't agree that you can use the Bible in it's literal sense. It can't possibly be translated into today's society. Too many contradictions. I'm tired of the wacky bible belt republicans, and those Kansas Church of Christ psychos causing all religious people to loose all credibility.

I don't go to church much...too much hypocrisy. I think that Divine Creation is a beautiful story, and I choose to believe it. If all it does is influence me to live my life as a better person, then so be it. I've lost nothing.

I do think the separation of Church and State is important however.

Burrito · Thu, Jun-25-2009, 08:15:30 PM

I think we need an anti Judeo/Christian god section for you guys! I see these threads every other day. Personally, a violation of the establishment clause doesn't really interest me. Thats a political area, POLITICS sub forum------------->

P4lm3r · Thu, Jun-25-2009, 08:23:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burrito

I think we need an anti Judeo/Christian god section for you guys! I see these threads every other day. Personally, a violation of the establishment clause doesn't really interest me. Thats a political area, POLITICS sub forum------------->

Acshully I posted this fread here on purpose. See how you are actually getting honest views from both sides? It works!

**Porshapwr** · Thu, Jun-25-2009, 08:26:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteDevote

Where does this inherent knowledge come from? How does it get in there?

Not arguing for or against anything, just curious.

It's a good question and one that I'm not qualified to answer. I'm just going on what I've read on the topic - the hows and whys are up for debate but I believe it was Palmer that said in some words Evolution would have played a role and I would probably agree with that. It sure would make for a good study.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Apostle

I believe very young children learn from watching their parents. I don't believe they understand right and wrong, but action and reaction. Babies love positive reactions and will repeat the behavior that got the positive reaction.

The other problem i have with what you've said, is that I've seen a 2 yr old walk up to another child, hit them in the face and take their toy. Where did the morality go?

I believe that this is the issue:

As I said above, I'm going on studies that I've read. I'm no expert by any means. In the instance you mentioned, that may be beyond the morality that's inherent. The "need" for the toy overwhelmed their inherent morality and so they did what they needed to to get it. That is where solid moral teachings would come in.

Just a thought........

Thu, Jun-25-2009, 07:53:39 PM	#31
Dark Apostle Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Age: 29 Posts: 1,106 Reputation: 0 Location: The Maelstrom	Let's pass a law making it illegal to not like someone, then everyone will get along just great. Just like in grade school, right? __________________ 200k ///M Club: M3cosmos95, Dark Apostle, mugm3, ClarkeBurns Those that live define themselves by those they Hate. It is our Hate that holds us, our Hate that saves us. It is our Hate that protects us from the dark things in the night. It is our Hate that drives us forward to conquer and progress. Our Hate that spreads our reach to all we may attain. And it is Blood that binds us, Blood that blinds us. We are born in Blood and when our Blood lies still, we die.

Thu, Jun-25-2009, 08:15:30 PM	#38
Burrito Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,214 Reputation: 0	I think we need an anti Judeo/Christian god section for you guys! I see these threads every other day. Personally, a violation of the establishment clause doesn't really interest me. Thats a political area, POLITICS sub forum-------------> Last edited by Burrito; Thu, Jun-25-2009 at 08:21:22 PM.

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