[Modena NYC]

Congrats. you'll be losing power. (where it counts)

[OahuMPower]

Originally Posted by Modena NYC

Congrats. you'll be losing power.

tell that to my 240+ rwhp and 230 ft/lb dyno graph on stock cams

[Modena NYC]

Originally Posted by OahuMPower

tell that to my 240+ rwhp and 230 ft/lb dyno graph on stock cams

Peak hp is cheap.

I've run M50 cars several times (all with similar mods) and the result is always the same...pretty much neck and neck. So where is all that extra hp??? you lose it here, move it there...blah blah. 99% of the time, ripping on the street, or even at the track, exiting a turn at 4k rpm, TQ is what you want. We don't have high strung powerplants so making them behave that way is sort of silly. The M50 makes sense if you literally have a RACE CAR and actually RACE IT. If that is true, you'll have more aggressive cams and you'll be keeping the car above 4-5k rpm the whole time...Do you ever stop for a red light? Do you ever run errands? Do you ever get stuck in traffic? Do you ever get caught behind some lazy SUV in the left lane that won't move over? If you answer "yes" to any of these questions the M50 is not your friend. It does sound good though, I'll give you that.

[OahuMPower]

haha.... let me know what your M52 dyno's ft/lb torque #'s are...

I do track my car regularly, and yes, it doesnt see anything lower than 4K usually when I'm at a track weekend. I have a DD for "normal" everyday stuff...

[I3MW]

Originally Posted by Modena NYC

Peak hp is cheap.

I've run M50 cars several times (all with similar mods) and the result is always the same...pretty much neck and neck. So where is all that extra hp??? you lose it here, move it there...blah blah. 99% of the time, ripping on the street, or even at the track, exiting a turn at 4k rpm, TQ is what you want. We don't have high strung powerplants so making them behave that way is sort of silly. The M50 makes sense if you literally have a RACE CAR and actually RACE IT. If that is true, you'll have more aggressive cams and you'll be keeping the car above 4-5k rpm the whole time...Do you ever stop for a red light? Do you ever run errands? Do you ever get stuck in traffic? Do you ever get caught behind some lazy SUV in the left lane that won't move over? If you answer "yes" to any of these questions the M50 is not your friend. It does sound good though, I'll give you that.

I've seen his dyno graph and its nothing for you to get smug about. As for your neck and neck stories great, I have similar stories with different endings. There is clearly extra HP its not rocket science; you now have a stroked s50 to 3.2 liters. But don't get me wrong I am a torque guy, I just feel it is better to shift that number up and make more with same. But keep telling yourself you need those extra foot pounds of torque while going shopping. Finally I'm not the first to say it but all the mods must compliment each other, if you have an ltw flywheel and a manifold that flows more, you will be revving significantly faster and applied to our cars in NA form I feel this is always a good thing. You don't need cams to make the M50 effective you just need to push the redline back a bit. The shift points on our cars were not ideal anyway the more restrictive manifold just covered it up better.

[WRXEATR]

Originally Posted by Modena NYC

Congrats. you'll be losing power. (where it counts)

Naysayer.

Think about what you just said.

The only time im going to even be in the lower RPM range (where the torque is lost) in a spirited drive is when I begin your accelerate in first gear. If I shift near redline in 1st, ill be over 4000rpm when I make it into second. Just about the same applies to the rest of the gears on upwards. So, because the benefits of the m50 manifold are reaped where higher volumes of airflow are present, this is going to help me WAY more than its going to hurt me. The torque loss from the m50 manifold is mostly below 3000rpm, and the only time I shift at low RPM points like that is when I'm just out lazy driving, in which case I don't really need the increased airflow.

Originally Posted by Modena NYC

Peak hp is cheap.
Do you ever get stuck in traffic? Do you ever get caught behind some lazy SUV in the left lane that won't move over? If you answer "yes" to any of these questions the M50 is not your friend.

If im stuck behind an SUV in the left lane @ 60mph in 5th, and I down shift into 3rd to pass him, I am right at 4000+ rpm where the larger volume runners of the M50 are beneficial. So actually, in this case M50=my friend. I don't need 4000rpm+ to run errands or be stuck in traffic, so I am fine with a small amount of lost torque in that respect.

Originally Posted by Modena NYC

Peak hp is cheap.

I've run M50 cars several times (all with similar mods) and the result is always the same...pretty much neck and neck. So where is all that extra hp??? you lose it here, move it there...blah blah. 99% of the time, ripping on the street, or even at the track, exiting a turn at 4k rpm, TQ is what you want. We don't have high strung powerplants so making them behave that way is sort of silly. The M50 makes sense if you literally have a RACE CAR and actually RACE IT. If that is true, you'll have more aggressive cams and you'll be keeping the car above 4-5k rpm the whole time...Do you ever stop for a red light? Do you ever run errands? Do you ever get stuck in traffic? Do you ever get caught behind some lazy SUV in the left lane that won't move over? If you answer "yes" to any of these questions the M50 is not your friend. It does sound good though, I'll give you that.

Oh boy. Here we go again...

[Aaron 4.6]

Originally Posted by Modena NYC

Congrats. you'll be losing power. (where it counts)

The intent of your post eludes me. This issue has been well discussed. The M50 manifold changes the shape of the torque curve.

Why did you feel the need to hate on what someone else chooses to do to their car, given that it cannot possibly impact the overall perception of M3 owners? Neon underbody lights or an aluminum wing, I'd understand you hating on. But a manifold swap?

[WRXEATR]

Originally Posted by Aaron 4.6

The intent of your post eludes me. This issue has been well discussed. The M50 manifold changes the shape of the torque curve.

Quoted for truth. Power is not "lost" it is simply "relocated" ever so conveniently into the rpm range that I'm typically driving in when im feelin good....!

[fiveightandten]

Just to reiterate...

Buy a kit (whether it be Eric's, the Eurosport or the Bimmerworld) is totally worth it, especially Eric's kit seeing as it's the cheapest. You definitely don't want to be trying to fabricate vacuum piping, finding hoses and connectors that are fuel/oil resistant and will hold up to the negative pressure of the vacuum involved, piecing things together, making measurements, etc. Then after you're done, bolting it all back together and praying you don't have to take it apart all over again because of some unforseen problem with the design of your modification.

Just spend the money on a kit. It's been researched, and implemented over and over again and you know you won't have issues as long as it's been installed correctly.

And without adding fuel to the fire...drive an M50 modded car before you put the manifold in yours. It's not for everyone. Like any mod, there are pros and cons. If it was all pros, the car would've come like that from the factory.

[Modena NYC]

Originally Posted by OahuMPower

haha.... let me know what your M52 dyno's ft/lb torque #'s are...

I do track my car regularly, and yes, it doesnt see anything lower than 4K usually when I'm at a track weekend. I have a DD for "normal" everyday stuff...

Exactly - you hop in the car when you are going to go ROMP and RIP around or on your way to the track etc. Fine.

I love how some poeple call it "hating" when I'm trying to keep people from spending $ they don't need to.

I disagree that shifting below 4k RPM is "lugging" it - i OFTEN shift below 4k, some times before 3k. If my wife is in the car, the car has enough oomph, no need to run it hard - now when i take it to the track - that is a different story. But what am I going to do? Put a M50 mani, + the software and tuning required to make it work decently, and slap on a coilover kit which everyone loves just for 4 days out of the year????

I've had a E36 more or less since '03, I've done the coils on a daily driven car and its doable but not livable IMO. I've driven/raced M50 mani cars and again, its doable, but not livable IMO. Just trying to balance out the "M50 mani is god propaganda" with some mature, life learned lessons.....to each his own at the end of the day.

Props to those willing to help and aid a fellow board member in this endeavor however