Drive train upgrades worth while

Silk · Sun, Jan-03-2010, 12:21:31 AM

Hey guys, I was going to supercharge the M3 this winter but I have become obsessed with NA performance while shopping for my project car. So rather then supercharge it I want to make the car the quickest it can be NA in the meantime.

Since the S54 is pretty tapped for NA power from the factory, I have done every basic bolt on, I am looking into drive train mods. I have already planned on switching to 4.10 gears and am aware of the benefits but I was also considering switching to a carbon fiber drive shaft and going to a lighter flywheel and stronger clutch. Any one have any experience with those items??

Quicksilv3r · Sun, Jan-03-2010, 01:16:54 AM

4.10 gears are going to give you a lot of torque, but you'll find yourself looking for a 7th gear on long trips/interstate drives. I think 6th gear @ ~75mph hovers around 3.5Krpms which can be incredibly annoying. Just try driving around town (~45mph) in 3rd....

Silk · Sun, Jan-03-2010, 01:33:34 AM

Ya I have heard that it can be really annoying and a lot of shifting. But that is ok. I only drive the car in the city and is rarely even if 5th so I think I should be able to handle the 4.10s.

lsb · Sun, Jan-03-2010, 01:42:43 AM

I am interested in a cf driveshaft too as part of my n/a build

.

ILLuSioNz X · Sun, Jan-03-2010, 11:28:15 PM

i'm thinking cf driveshaft would make a great difference...

Mr. Wolfe · Sun, Jan-03-2010, 11:52:23 PM

IMO 4.10's are only annoying if you are cruising above 85mph for a long period of time. Even at that, it's not that bad.

Mr. Wolfe

MVF4Rrider · Mon, Jan-04-2010, 12:40:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk

Hey guys, I was going to supercharge the M3 this winter but I have become obsessed with NA performance while shopping for my project car. So rather then supercharge it I want to make the car the quickest it can be NA in the meantime.

Since the S54 is pretty tapped for NA power from the factory, I have done every basic bolt on, I am looking into drive train mods. I have already planned on switching to 4.10 gears and am aware of the benefits but I was also considering switching to a carbon fiber drive shaft and going to a lighter flywheel and stronger clutch. Any one have any experience with those items??

What makes you think the power can't be improved? Several sources sell enlarged throttle bodies, which will make for a big gain in throttle response and a better power spread (more important than chasing higher peak #s), as well as increased torque. Are you willing to go inside the motor for more power? Cams, pistons, porting/polishing, etc.? The lighter flywheel and clutch makes a big difference in throttle response too. You're just freeing up lost power. The 4.10 gears of course will make a big difference as it increases force measurably. I prefer the 3.91 gear ratio myself as I believe it's a better ratio for traction and civility. It also helps to remove as much weight as possible, but that's easier said than done and can be very expensive. Ceramic brakes (Mov'it) reduce substantial unsprung weight over other high end brakes, but cost a small fortune I'm sure. But the result is on another planet from the braking power we enjoy. Then there's the other normal stuff: headers, exhaust, software, etc. The list goes on and on.

**Obioban** · Mon, Jan-04-2010, 01:22:56 AM

I have yet to see any proof that larger throttle bodies do anything.

Bar none, the best power mod for this car is headers. If you can afford it, SS stepped headers. If you can't, ebay gets good gains for not munch money.

Pullies get more to the wheels... but not really that much.

Panel filter gets you 1-2, and is basically a freebie since the filter is a wear item.

Software nicely ties it together.

Light weight wheels actually make a car faster, especially in 18"

From there, you're really looking at larger ticket items-- cams, stroker, compression upping... or weight dropping (CSL trunk, CF roof, lightweight seats).

I'm not a fan of lightweight flywheels... ruin the drivability of the car, imho. Can't stand my street car rattling off wherever I go... and ALL of them rattle.

Silk · Mon, Jan-04-2010, 01:39:50 AM

I guess I should have mentioned the engine mods on the car:
Gruppe M intake
Fabspeed header
Rouge Diablo Exhaust
CPI sec 1
DA pullies
DA race software

That is why I am interested in drive train mods. I don't really want to take apart the engine as to me it isn't worth the gains made.

The DA software raises the idle of the car which is suppose to eliminate flywheel chatter. Other then the chatter, does it effect the drivability in any other way?

Ingenere · Mon, Jan-04-2010, 02:25:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk

I guess I should have mentioned the engine mods on the car:
Gruppe M intake
Fabspeed header
Rouge Diablo Exhaust
CPI sec 1
DA pullies
DA race software

That is why I am interested in drive train mods. I don't really want to take apart the engine as to me it isn't worth the gains made.

The DA software raises the idle of the car which is suppose to eliminate flywheel chatter. Other then the chatter, does it effect the drivability in any other way?

Your car should be running pretty well with what you have. You could stat losing weight off the car, which would help. What are you wanting to use the car for?

Sun, Jan-03-2010, 12:21:31 AM	#1
Silk Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 104 Reputation: 0 Location: Saskatoon	Drive train upgrades worth while Hey guys, I was going to supercharge the M3 this winter but I have become obsessed with NA performance while shopping for my project car. So rather then supercharge it I want to make the car the quickest it can be NA in the meantime. Since the S54 is pretty tapped for NA power from the factory, I have done every basic bolt on, I am looking into drive train mods. I have already planned on switching to 4.10 gears and am aware of the benefits but I was also considering switching to a carbon fiber drive shaft and going to a lighter flywheel and stronger clutch. Any one have any experience with those items??

Sun, Jan-03-2010, 01:16:54 AM	#2
Quicksilv3r Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 27 Posts: 1,453 In the garage: '02 BMW M5 Reputation: 0 Location: Augusta	4.10 gears are going to give you a lot of torque, but you'll find yourself looking for a 7th gear on long trips/interstate drives. I think 6th gear @ ~75mph hovers around 3.5Krpms which can be incredibly annoying. Just try driving around town (~45mph) in 3rd.... __________________

Sun, Jan-03-2010, 01:42:43 AM	#4
lsb Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 714 Reputation: 0	I am interested in a cf driveshaft too as part of my n/a build. __________________

Sun, Jan-03-2010, 11:28:15 PM	#5
ILLuSioNz X Currently doing some math Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 4,794 Reputation: 0 Location: NY/NJ	i'm thinking cf driveshaft would make a great difference... __________________ -Chauncey 2003 E46 M3 COUPE VF570 Build Journal The Official Supercharger Kit Maintenance/Replacement Parts Thread (VF, AA and ESS) ► ILLuSioNzX Garage Sale ◄

Sun, Jan-03-2010, 11:52:23 PM	#6
Mr. Wolfe Anti-Bling Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 9,429 In the garage: '03 BMW M3 Reputation: 0 Location: Above Pittsburgh	IMO 4.10's are only annoying if you are cruising above 85mph for a long period of time. Even at that, it's not that bad. Mr. Wolfe __________________ 2003 Alpine/Cinnamon ///M3 Coupe 6MT ZCP Wheels l 4.10 Diff. l KWv2 l JVT l ESS l H&R Sway l AR-20's l 10mm/15mm Spacers l ZHP Shift Knob l FK 452's l RE l PF

Sun, Jan-03-2010, 01:33:34 AM	#3
Silk Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 104 Reputation: 0 Location: Saskatoon	Ya I have heard that it can be really annoying and a lot of shifting. But that is ok. I only drive the car in the city and is rarely even if 5th so I think I should be able to handle the 4.10s.

Mon, Jan-04-2010, 01:22:56 AM	#8
Obioban M3Forum Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 23,469 In the garage: '95 BMW M3 '05 BMW M3 Reputation: 0 Location: SE PA	I have yet to see any proof that larger throttle bodies do anything. Bar none, the best power mod for this car is headers. If you can afford it, SS stepped headers. If you can't, ebay gets good gains for not munch money. Pullies get more to the wheels... but not really that much. Panel filter gets you 1-2, and is basically a freebie since the filter is a wear item. Software nicely ties it together. Light weight wheels actually make a car faster, especially in 18" From there, you're really looking at larger ticket items-- cams, stroker, compression upping... or weight dropping (CSL trunk, CF roof, lightweight seats). I'm not a fan of lightweight flywheels... ruin the drivability of the car, imho. Can't stand my street car rattling off wherever I go... and ALL of them rattle. __________________ Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2003 TiAg M5, 1995 S50 B32 GT3 RS Green M3 Race Car _____Former Cars: 2004 TiAg/IR M3, 1996 TV/black M3, 1995 AW M3 shell Useful stuff: Objective suspension comparison, DIY suspension install VIDEOS (e36 version), Stick Driving Basics, e46 Climate Control, Better Fuel Economy 101, 10W-60 TWS Everything on the car: Mod List __________ HighRes M Wallpapers (Misc collected pics) <--- save target to desktop Selling: Suspensions, brakes, safety equipment, etc (ask away!) Renting: Valve shim adjustment kit, RTAB tool, Ball joint tool

Mon, Jan-04-2010, 01:39:50 AM	#9
Silk Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 104 Reputation: 0 Location: Saskatoon	I guess I should have mentioned the engine mods on the car: Gruppe M intake Fabspeed header Rouge Diablo Exhaust CPI sec 1 DA pullies DA race software That is why I am interested in drive train mods. I don't really want to take apart the engine as to me it isn't worth the gains made. The DA software raises the idle of the car which is suppose to eliminate flywheel chatter. Other then the chatter, does it effect the drivability in any other way?

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