[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by TaZaM3

How has HPF F'ed up? They have great support and great products.
VF has F'ed up plenty but they are praised here.

Please don't go on a tangent.
I never said HPF products were not good or have poor support.
They F'ed up, by not following the forum rules for sponsors.
You have heard that straight from the horses mouth, any other reason is just bogus.

You don't see me praising VF, but I don't make it my agenda to attack them at every given opportunity.

[930chas]

This forum really is a shame. A forced induction forum that won't even allow discussion of basically the only turbo kit on the market for the e46 m3 and a forced induction forum that won't allow any honest discussion about one of the board sponsors having all kinds of maladies with their supercharger kits. How is that helping enthusiasts?

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by 930chas

This forum really is a shame. A forced induction forum that won't even allow discussion of basically the only turbo kit on the market for the e46 m3 and a forced induction forum that won't allow any honest discussion about one of the board sponsors having all kinds of maladies with their supercharger kits. How is that helping enthusiasts?

That is the problem, it never is.
Some members, not all, always end up with the "you can't afford it" or "I'm better than you...", so no honest discussion can come out of that.

I disagree on not able to complain about the "one sponsor" you are talking about.
Recently, it was discussed and dragged through mud, hell and back.
So they have gotten theirs, for how they handled that situation.

[spd_euphoria]

Originally Posted by 930chas

This forum really is a shame. A forced induction forum that won't even allow discussion of basically the only turbo kit on the market for the e46 m3 and a forced induction forum that won't allow any honest discussion about one of the board sponsors having all kinds of maladies with their supercharger kits. How is that helping enthusiasts?

I agree that it would be great if HPF were allowed here, but I don't think it is as simple as you make it out to be.


1st: regarding issues with SC kits: I don't think the mods are intentionally cracking down on owners who post up issues with their kits. But what has happened is that such threads tend to become filled with 1-2 line responses basically saying "F VF" and not offering any real help to the OP (and then a backlash from VF supporters so the thread quickly becomes a flame fest). This is compounded by the fact that most of those "F VF" type posts come from former VF owners who have moved to HPF. I think fanatics often lets those threads go too far -- so I think the ideal balance is somewhere in between fanatics and M3f...

2nd: regarding HPF kit owner's ability to post. For the most part, HPF owners are able to post "just got my car back from HPF, here are some pictures I took when it arrived, here are some 60-130 times, here are pictures of me at the track, etc" -- just not street racing threads (which kind of hamstrings HPF owners since they tend to have highway king cars). The 'problem' comes from the fact that HPF gives every owner the VIP treatment and takes tons of photos of each car in the HPF shop throughout the build, and often includes HPF-shot videos showcasing certain features. Your thread that was deleted here was basically a quote of a post & video? Chris made on fanatics -- and since Chris is banned here, it can come across as an attempt to circumvent the ban.


3rd: Look at ESS & Gerard. When ESS wasn't allowed vendor status here, they didn't post. And they didn't post threads on other forums with every car that was built (or kit sold). The customers did so if they wanted. Obviously HPF's strategy is the better marketing plan, but since it was quite clear that the content was coming from enthusiastic customers, Gerard was free to post his "brethren" thread and highlight the differences between SC kits and the advantages of ESS. I truly think M3f would have taken a similar stand to HPF if it wasn't so hard to tell whether the content posted was from enthusiasts directly -- or from HPF Chris. (Plus you generally don't see ESS customers dogpiling on VF).



So again, I really think it would be best for the forum to allow HPF to come here, but I think the mods/admins here have generally acted in a way they felt was best for the forum (I'm not saying they haven't made mistakes, because they have -- look at the various iterations of my screen name -- but I think they do want whats best for the forum).

[maikosgerga]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

Please don't go on a tangent.
I never said HPF products were not good or have poor support.
They F'ed up, by not following the forum rules for sponsors.
You have heard that straight from the horses mouth, any other reason is just bogus.

You don't see me praising VF, but I don't make it my agenda to attack them at every given opportunity.

The main reason why Chris (HPF) was coming back to this site was to become sponsor(1) and (2)stop all the negativity that was spoken about his product, all the kabooooommmm and ****. Let me ask you a question, where are all the people that used to bash them back then? Cleveland, haven't heard a word from him. Mert, he is now praising HPF. I could keep going. Look at what Chris has done so far.

I remember Taza(Vik) was banned from here around that time because he "miss-treated" a buyer (I think it was about a set of brakes). Why hasn't VF been banned even after all this testimony about very very bad customer service and shady business practices?

I am N/A by the way

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by maikosgerga

The main reason why Chris (HPF) was coming back to this site was to become sponsor(1) and (2)stop all the negativity that was spoken about his product, all the kabooooommmm and ****. Let me ask you a question, where are all the people that used to bash them back then? Cleveland, haven't heard a word from him. Mert, he is now praising HPF. I could keep going. Look at what Chris has done so far.
I remember Taza(Vik) was banned from here around that time because he "miss-treated" a buyer (I think it was about a set of brakes). Why hasn't VF been banned even after all this testimony about very very bad customer service and shady business practices?
I am N/A by the way

I can't answer for him, but you can send him a PM and ask him.
For the record, I am N/A too, I don't dislike HPF, but I do like a lot ESS.
If one day I go F/I, it will be ESS FTMFW.

You said Mert???
You dare mention that thief, pathological liars name here???
LOL

Lastly, I'm not a Moderator, so I can't answer your last question either.

[930chas]

Originally Posted by spd_euphoria

I agree that it would be great if HPF were allowed here, but I don't think it is as simple as you make it out to be.


1st: regarding issues with SC kits: I don't think the mods are intentionally cracking down on owners who post up issues with their kits. But what has happened is that such threads tend to become filled with 1-2 line responses basically saying "F VF" and not offering any real help to the OP (and then a backlash from VF supporters so the thread quickly becomes a flame fest). This is compounded by the fact that most of those "F VF" type posts come from former VF owners who have moved to HPF. I think fanatics often lets those threads go too far -- so I think the ideal balance is somewhere in between fanatics and M3f...

2nd: regarding HPF kit owner's ability to post. For the most part, HPF owners are able to post "just got my car back from HPF, here are some pictures I took when it arrived, here are some 60-130 times, here are pictures of me at the track, etc" -- just not street racing threads (which kind of hamstrings HPF owners since they tend to have highway king cars). The 'problem' comes from the fact that HPF gives every owner the VIP treatment and takes tons of photos of each car in the HPF shop throughout the build, and often includes HPF-shot videos showcasing certain features. Your thread that was deleted here was basically a quote of a post & video? Chris made on fanatics -- and since Chris is banned here, it can come across as an attempt to circumvent the ban.


3rd: Look at ESS & Gerald. When ESS wasn't allowed vendor status here, they didn't post. And they didn't post threads on other forums with every car that was built (or kit sold). The customers did so if they wanted. Obviously HPF's strategy is the better marketing plan, but since it was quite clear that the content was coming from enthusiastic customers, Gerald was free to post his "brethren" thread and highlight the differences between SC kits and the advantages of ESS. I truly think M3f would have taken a similar stand to HPF if it wasn't so hard to tell whether the content posted was from enthusiasts directly -- or from HPF Chris. (Plus you don't see ESS customers dogpiling on VF).



So again, I really think it would be best for the forum to allow HPF to come here, but I think the mods/admins here have generally acted in a way they felt was best for the forum (I'm not saying they haven't made mistakes, because they have -- look at the various iterations of my screen name -- but I think they do want whats best for the forum).

Reading your posts here and on the other forum, I think you are one of the more level headed posters and for the most part I usually agree with what you have to say. Your points are again valid. I still tend to think the moderation is excessively one-sided, but the fact that this thread is still going has to speak for something. Maybe we are headed in the right direction?

[Beowoulf]

I have a couple of questions for the HPF supporters.

1. How many companies offer F/I for our cars?
2. How many of those are either sponsors or have no issues with this forum?
3. If we were pawns of VF as so many of you claim, why do all the other companies have free reign?
Once you have answered these questions, I'll let you in on a few secrets.

[autobred]

[QUOTE=Beowoulf;4512757]I have a couple of questions for the HPF supporters.

1. How many companies offer F/I for our cars?
2. How many of those are either sponsors or have no issues with this forum?
3. If we were pawns of VF as so many of you claim, why do all the other companies have free reign?
Once you have answered these questions, I'll let you in on a few secrets. [/QUO we appreciate you letting the FI enthusiasts have this discussion

[Beowoulf]

It doesn't seem to be much of a discussion. What I see is this forum and its moderators being accused of being on the take from VF to exclude HPF. You guys really think that sort of libelous accusation will make us feel all warm and fuzzy? Or do you just hope we will feel so ashamed for being exposed for being on the take that we will beg HPF to become a forum sponsor. Our issues with HPF has nothing to do with VF. It has to do with Chris' past behavior and the current behavior of a good portion of HPF customers. If I wanted to waste a day, I could go through all of the past threads and chronicle all our past interactions with HPF and its customers to make my point, but I have better things to do with my time.