[Bug]

Originally Posted by Beowoulf

It doesn't seem to be much of a discussion. What I see is this forum and its moderators being accused of being on the take from VF to exclude HPF. You guys really think that sort of libelous accusation will make us feel all warm and fuzzy? Or do you just hope we will feel so ashamed for being exposed for being on the take that we will beg HPF to become a forum sponsor. Our issues with HPF has nothing to do with VF. It has to do with Chris' past behavior and the current behavior of a good portion of HPF customers. If I wanted to waste a day, I could go through all of the past threads and chronicle all our past interactions with HPF and its customers to make my point, but I have better things to do with my time.

+1 Seems to me nobody is being held hostage here. If folks don't like it here, or can't follow the rules, find a new forum to play in. Simple enough.

[shadowless]

Originally Posted by Bug

+1 Seems to me nobody is being held hostage here. If folks don't like it here, or can't follow the rules, find a new forum to play in. Simple enough.

or start your own gd forum.

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by sg_wannabe

or start your own gd forum.

What a great idea, then we can go and crap on all their F/I threads.

[shadowless]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

What a great idea, then we can go and crap on all their F/I threads.

see, now you got me all mixed up in this.
as of a couple of days ago, i was staying out of this mess... damnit!!!

[Beowoulf]

Originally Posted by spd_euphoria

I agree that it would be great if HPF were allowed here, but I don't think it is as simple as you make it out to be.


1st: regarding issues with SC kits: I don't think the mods are intentionally cracking down on owners who post up issues with their kits. But what has happened is that such threads tend to become filled with 1-2 line responses basically saying "F VF" and not offering any real help to the OP (and then a backlash from VF supporters so the thread quickly becomes a flame fest). This is compounded by the fact that most of those "F VF" type posts come from former VF owners who have moved to HPF. I think fanatics often lets those threads go too far -- so I think the ideal balance is somewhere in between fanatics and M3f...

2nd: regarding HPF kit owner's ability to post. For the most part, HPF owners are able to post "just got my car back from HPF, here are some pictures I took when it arrived, here are some 60-130 times, here are pictures of me at the track, etc" -- just not street racing threads (which kind of hamstrings HPF owners since they tend to have highway king cars). The 'problem' comes from the fact that HPF gives every owner the VIP treatment and takes tons of photos of each car in the HPF shop throughout the build, and often includes HPF-shot videos showcasing certain features. Your thread that was deleted here was basically a quote of a post & video? Chris made on fanatics -- and since Chris is banned here, it can come across as an attempt to circumvent the ban.


3rd: Look at ESS & Gerald. When ESS wasn't allowed vendor status here, they didn't post. And they didn't post threads on other forums with every car that was built (or kit sold). The customers did so if they wanted. Obviously HPF's strategy is the better marketing plan, but since it was quite clear that the content was coming from enthusiastic customers, Gerald was free to post his "brethren" thread and highlight the differences between SC kits and the advantages of ESS. I truly think M3f would have taken a similar stand to HPF if it wasn't so hard to tell whether the content posted was from enthusiasts directly -- or from HPF Chris. (Plus you don't see ESS customers dogpiling on VF).



So again, I really think it would be best for the forum to allow HPF to come here, but I think the mods/admins here have generally acted in a way they felt was best for the forum (I'm not saying they haven't made mistakes, because they have -- look at the various iterations of my screen name -- but I think they do want whats best for the forum).

Damn, you know more details than I do. Perhaps I should hang out here more often.

[wrekonize]

Originally Posted by TaZaM3

From what I know, the wrong doings of HPF are making different accounts. At the same time we are hearing proof from a member that was banned under false pretenses of being someone else.

I understand this is a "private" forum, so let it be known that all the discussions here are biased and censored?

How about VF F'ed MANY members and yet they are allowed to post here? So does this private forum condone a sponsor threatning to sue customers if they talk or ignore a customer with a defective kit/engine?

Exactly what I was thinking

[GJGM3]

Originally Posted by spd_euphoria

I agree that it would be great if HPF were allowed here, but I don't think it is as simple as you make it out to be.


1st: regarding issues with SC kits: I don't think the mods are intentionally cracking down on owners who post up issues with their kits. But what has happened is that such threads tend to become filled with 1-2 line responses basically saying "F VF" and not offering any real help to the OP (and then a backlash from VF supporters so the thread quickly becomes a flame fest). This is compounded by the fact that most of those "F VF" type posts come from former VF owners who have moved to HPF. I think fanatics often lets those threads go too far -- so I think the ideal balance is somewhere in between fanatics and M3f...

2nd: regarding HPF kit owner's ability to post. For the most part, HPF owners are able to post "just got my car back from HPF, here are some pictures I took when it arrived, here are some 60-130 times, here are pictures of me at the track, etc" -- just not street racing threads (which kind of hamstrings HPF owners since they tend to have highway king cars). The 'problem' comes from the fact that HPF gives every owner the VIP treatment and takes tons of photos of each car in the HPF shop throughout the build, and often includes HPF-shot videos showcasing certain features. Your thread that was deleted here was basically a quote of a post & video? Chris made on fanatics -- and since Chris is banned here, it can come across as an attempt to circumvent the ban.


3rd: Look at ESS & Gerald. When ESS wasn't allowed vendor status here, they didn't post. And they didn't post threads on other forums with every car that was built (or kit sold). The customers did so if they wanted. Obviously HPF's strategy is the better marketing plan, but since it was quite clear that the content was coming from enthusiastic customers, Gerald was free to post his "brethren" thread and highlight the differences between SC kits and the advantages of ESS. I truly think M3f would have taken a similar stand to HPF if it wasn't so hard to tell whether the content posted was from enthusiasts directly -- or from HPF Chris. (Plus you don't see ESS customers dogpiling on VF).



So again, I really think it would be best for the forum to allow HPF to come here, but I think the mods/admins here have generally acted in a way they felt was best for the forum (I'm not saying they haven't made mistakes, because they have -- look at the various iterations of my screen name -- but I think they do want whats best for the forum).

WHOA, I'm BUSTED!

BTW - name is "Gerard"

FWIW I think I walked a fine line on my posts prior to ESS' sponsorship. I've also been here for a long time and have a lot of posts - not that this in of itself is a reason to not get banned or have infractions imposed - many who know me here know I've been bad from time to time (and paid for it - figuratively), but who says "you can't teach an old dog new tricks"!!!

In any case I lurked in this section of the forum for well over a year learning, researching and asking questions about supercharging the S54 in order to decide which one to get. I also modded the heck out of my car prior to that and chronicled it on this forum, supported to a very large DEGREE many of their vendors (and made huge referrals to them) between 2005 through 2007, then I parted the car out. I state this not as an excuse but more of a progression over a 4 to 5 year history posting here. I'm subject to the same rules as others and to quote one of the mods "how many licks". Lets just say I've had my share - no special treatment here, although this is my forum of preference and support.

With respect to said posts prior to ESS' sponsorship, following my acquisition I posted my setup that I decided on, posted dyno results, my impressions, pictures, and had a few engage me on several things - p!ssing match oriented I suppose, etc. I was obliged - haha. From that point several others acquired ESS' VT series (they were more low key) and another two the CFR. Hence, I started the aforementioned "Brethren" and other impression-related threads as a post for those here who own it, and not one to solicit it to others - just a place for a very small community to share our experiences within our group and in that thread. I moderated it to the best I could so that it would not be real or perceived against the rules.

The point to all this is there are many differences with my threads and the history (mostly due to the HPF issue history) on this forum with HPF. Heck, I initially placed in order 9/07 for stg. II then pulled out (transport arrived and last chance on reduced ship) when two of my local friends proceeded. I believe I was vocal about that too back then (no issues), so it wasn't always this way - things happened that didn't bode well for them though with the kit coming out of R&D and in to production, drama over the results (kaboom comments galore, etc.) and flaming amongst those pro/con, etc., and HPF - M3 Forum related problems on what you can and can't do if you're not a vendor, or surrogates, or employees or former employees posting here following being told to stop. It's not all that simple and no one comment from anyone has captured the full scope of what was going on back then, but plenty remember it.

A lot of fault to go around, but the one thing that remained true was M3 Forum was tolerant, but to a point. Once a tolerance threshold was crossed it was pretty much the point of no return.

So it is what it is. I don't think these threads and the bashing help HPF out in any way at all - in fact I think it's been unfortunately highly counterproductive and foolish.

Please don't get me wrong as I don't have any issues with HPF, VF, AA or any other. Oh yeah, obviously no "issues" with ESS and I totally dig the setup - perfection, service, and the great fellows (Asbjorn, Hans & Roman) here and in Norway. Also, my wifey is German/Norwegian and she couldn't have been happier that I supported her roots!

[spd_euphoria]

Very good points.

Originally Posted by GJGM3

BTW - name is "Gerard"

Doh! Sorry about that

Once a tolerance threshold was crossed it was pretty much the point of no return.

I agree, but think the tolerance threshold has been cyclical (and hope it eases back to the pre "resistor" levels soon). When every other thread starts getting to be 5 pages of people at each other's throats, the staff begins to discipline people for things that would normally slide by As someone who's been the victim of that before, your first reaction is to curse to mods/admins but really the instigators should bear the most blame for needlessly escalating the hostility.

I don't think these threads and the bashing help HPF out in any way at all - in fact I think it's been unfortunately highly counterproductive and foolish.

I wholeheartedly agree If anything, I think its only been to AA and ESS's benefit.

[nickr519]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

What a great idea, then we can go and crap on all their F/I threads.

I always knew you m3forum guys were the most impartial and mature members, who don't like pissing matches, after all you just want to have civil discussions and learn about f/i right?

[docwyte]

Personally I think it got to this point because several HPF owners took it upon themselves to continually bait the moderators and make it their mission in life to hammer another particular vendor.

When you twist the tail of a tiger enough times, you're not going to like the results.

I do feel sometimes the moderators swing too far the other direction, but I understand why they do that.

If you're unwilling to abide by the rules here, which are very reasonable IMO, then don't b!tch about the results.