[khyron4]

Good choice OP, you won't be disappointed with the choice.

Yeah the e92 might be faster in a straight line, just means you won't win drag races against the M3. Honestly, you shouldn't care. The Porsche is not a drag car.

Sure the 997.1 and 997.2 might be faster in the 'ring, mainly because it involves "turns", GT board does straight drags (both rolling and standing starts).

[GSIRM3]

Originally Posted by yemenmocha

I'm not confusing cars at all, a 2005 997.1 S with a 'ring time of 7:59 to an M3 time of 8:05 is a clear difference.... and yes the PDK car is about 16 seconds or so faster than the M3 around the 'ring.

You are correct.

[yemenmocha]

Originally Posted by GSIRM3

You are correct.

Yes, thanks. I know!

Plus, the vid posted above is what... from a roll in 2nd gear through 150+mph? So in setting up the "comparison" - let's take away the traction advantage of the Porsche off the line, let's take away the weight advantage off the line, and let's also take the race to a speed that you'll very rarely see on most tracks (or public roads) in the U.S (which is also something that heavily favors higher hp cars). In other words, set up the "race" so that it minimizes the negative effects of a heavy car and benefits cars with more horsepower. Do it from a stop, with the driver only, and take it through the quarter mile and see if the cars don't have a different result than that "race" video.

But more importantly, if you want overall performance ability look at something like the 'ring times with competent drivers. That's what counts the most, and I think that's why many of us choose M cars' overall performance and not for drag racing (otherwise, buy American muscle, right?). Both the M3 and a 997 will lose in a striaght line to a base C6 Corvette that costs much less than both German autos.

[lagunasecablue]

Originally Posted by yemenmocha

Yes, thanks. I know!

Plus, the vid posted above is what... from a roll in 2nd gear through 150+mph? So in setting up the "comparison" - let's take away the traction advantage of the Porsche off the line, let's take away the weight advantage off the line, and let's also take the race to a speed that you'll very rarely see on most tracks (or public roads) in the U.S (which is also something that heavily favors higher hp cars). In other words, set up the "race" so that it minimizes the negative effects of a heavy car and benefits cars with more horsepower. Do it from a stop, with the driver only, and take it through the quarter mile and see if the cars don't have a different result than that "race" video.

But more importantly, if you want overall performance ability look at something like the 'ring times with competent drivers. That's what counts the most, and I think that's why many of us choose M cars' overall performance and not for drag racing (otherwise, buy American muscle, right?). Both the M3 and a 997 will lose in a striaght line to a base C6 Corvette that costs much less than both German autos.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Porsche were faster on the track, but the OP said "We can check it out if you want,if you're ever in NYC area...." Not sure if I know any road courses in NYC?

The OP has a 997 Non-S with AWD, which is definitely ≠ to a 997S with 2WD... not sure why you are bringing up track times for that car.

Have you ever driven the 'Ring? I have. Neither the M3 or the 997S is usably faster, so you can quote lap times from some magazine driver years ago all you want, but at the end of the day that is an impractical comparison. I do know that the M3 is very comparable with the 997S around Laguna Seca and Thunderhill, two of my local tracks. The 997.1S runs Laguna in 1:45 whereas the E92 M3 can do it in the high 1:42 or 1:43 range. They offer very similar performance on the track, but in the power department, the M3 does have the advantage.

Either way, I would definitely not get a 997 (I know you have one--sorry). That motor is fundamentally too close to the ones in the Boxster and 996 Carrera that have been plagued with RMS issues. There have been issues of 997's with RMS issues with as low as 7k miles. Porsche has been notoriously bad about offering goodwill to those buyers out of warranty. The only 996 or 997.1 cars I'd consider are the Turbo/GT2 or the GT3.

Not a perfect comparison, but here you go... M3 pulling on a 997S Cab with ease.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0wUpZdeyoc

[///M Kevin]

Excellent choice OP. Welcome to the Porsche family.

[yemenmocha]

Originally Posted by lagunasecablue

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Porsche were faster on the track, but the OP said "We can check it out if you want,if you're ever in NYC area...." Not sure if I know any road courses in NYC?

The OP has a 997 Non-S with AWD, which is definitely ≠ to a 997S with 2WD... not sure why you are bringing up track times for that car.

Have you ever driven the 'Ring? I have. Neither the M3 or the 997S is usably faster, so you can quote lap times from some magazine driver years ago all you want, but at the end of the day that is an impractical comparison. I do know that the M3 is very comparable with the 997S around Laguna Seca and Thunderhill, two of my local tracks. The 997.1S runs Laguna in 1:45 whereas the E92 M3 can do it in the high 1:42 or 1:43 range. They offer very similar performance on the track, but in the power department, the M3 does have the advantage.

Either way, I would definitely not get a 997 (I know you have one--sorry). That motor is fundamentally too close to the ones in the Boxster and 996 Carrera that have been plagued with RMS issues. There have been issues of 997's with RMS issues with as low as 7k miles. Porsche has been notoriously bad about offering goodwill to those buyers out of warranty. The only 996 or 997.1 cars I'd consider are the Turbo/GT2 or the GT3.

Not a perfect comparison, but here you go... M3 pulling on a 997S Cab with ease.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0wUpZdeyoc

You're changing the subject.

The disagreement was over whether one car was faster than the other. In doing so, you compare what the cars are capable of, and that occurs with competent drivers, not amateurs. If you want to debate what the average Joe on the forums can do (usually without any driving school experience) then why bother comparing cars? I've out-accelerated a Z06 on the highway before, but I don't think for a second that my car is a faster car - he was obviously in the wrong gear, probably 5th when it should have been 3rd.

You bring up these shady videos as if they count for something. You didn't reply to the comments about how the race conditions were set up to the advantage of one car over the other. If I wanted the M3 to beat a 997S in a drag race I would have the race be from a roll to negate the Porsche's advantage in weight and traction off the line. I would also have the race go to something silly like 150-160mph so it favors the higher HP car, and again minimizes the weight disadvantage. Well, that's what the first video shows.

It's the same set of reasons for why the current M5 and M6 embarrass both cars mentioned above when it comes to straightline acceleration from a 2nd gear roll to 150+ mph. Yet neither of these heavy, high HP cars can come close to the overall performance of the M3 on a track like the 'ring. Usually that's what people want to compare and what matters - the overall performance ability.

There haven't been the frequency of RMS issues with the 997s as with previous models. Nowhere in this thread was there discussion of comparing cabriolets. At this point it seems that all you're doing is trying to make things personal, which is sad and really just isn't necessary.

[lagunasecablue]

Originally Posted by yemenmocha

You're changing the subject.

The disagreement was over whether one car was faster than the other. In doing so, you compare what the cars are capable of, and that occurs with competent drivers, not amateurs. If you want to debate what the average Joe on the forums can do (usually without any driving school experience) then why bother comparing cars? I've out-accelerated a Z06 on the highway before, but I don't think for a second that my car is a faster car - he was obviously in the wrong gear, probably 5th when it should have been 3rd.

You bring up these shady videos as if they count for something. You didn't reply to the comments about how the race conditions were set up to the advantage of one car over the other. If I wanted the M3 to beat a 997S in a drag race I would have the race be from a roll to negate the Porsche's advantage in weight and traction off the line. I would also have the race go to something silly like 150-160mph so it favors the higher HP car, and again minimizes the weight disadvantage. Well, that's what the first video shows.

It's the same set of reasons for why the current M5 and M6 embarrass both cars mentioned above when it comes to straightline acceleration from a 2nd gear roll to 150+ mph. Yet neither of these heavy, high HP cars can come close to the overall performance of the M3 on a track like the 'ring. Usually that's what people want to compare and what matters - the overall performance ability.

There haven't been the frequency of RMS issues with the 997s as with previous models. Nowhere in this thread was there discussion of comparing cabriolets. At this point it seems that all you're doing is trying to make things personal, which is sad and really just isn't necessary.

No, nothing's personal, but you can't really say a 997S is faster than an E92 M3 from a roll let alone a 997 non-S AWD car... which was the situation mentioned in the post... that is just a disingenous statement. I have *NEVER* seen a 997.1S out accelerate an E9x M3 in a comparison in either real life or on the web. It's just not true. 355hp vs. 414 and 6-7% better LB/hp ratio... and as you correctly point out, LB/hp matters less as speeds increase.

You still haven't answered whether you driven the 'Ring at all... and if so did you find the 997 faster than the E9x M3 or the M3 faster than the M5/M6? I have, and I know for a fact that driver is MUCH more important in these comparisons than the car... you can quote figures all day but they are all on different days, with different drivers, and with various levels of wear on the engine/tires/transmission/infinite variables. Sabine will smoke the **** out of both you and me in an M5 with 4 passengers even if we were driving GTR's.

Back to the original question... in the test a.k.a. drag race in NYC implied by the OP, the 997.1 non-S has basically no chance against an E92 M3. If you have video proof of either that car or even an S version out-accelerating an M3, please supply it as I would love to see it.

[Cachee0]

Originally Posted by lagunasecablue

No, nothing's personal, but you can't really say a 997S is faster than an E92 M3 from a roll let alone a 997 non-S AWD car... which was the situation mentioned in the post... that is just a disingenous statement. I have *NEVER* seen a 997.1S out accelerate an E9x M3 in a comparison in either real life or on the web. It's just not true. 355hp vs. 414 and 6-7% better LB/hp ratio... and as you correctly point out, LB/hp matters less as speeds increase.

You still haven't answered whether you driven the 'Ring at all... and if so did you find the 997 faster than the E9x M3 or the M3 faster than the M5/M6? I have, and I know for a fact that driver is MUCH more important in these comparisons than the car... you can quote figures all day but they are all on different days, with different drivers, and with various levels of wear on the engine/tires/transmission/infinite variables. Sabine will smoke the **** out of both you and me in an M5 with 4 passengers even if we were driving GTR's.

Back to the original question... in the test a.k.a. drag race in NYC implied by the OP, the 997.1 non-S has basically no chance against an E92 M3. If you have video proof of either that car or even an S version out-accelerating an M3, please supply it as I would love to see it.

Very solid I think you articualted your point well.

[neuralracing]

Its funny how people neglect that a Porsche is a Porsche... 90% of the folks on these forums own an M3 rather than a Porsche because either... better pricing on the M3 or they need the practicality of the M3. But when all is said and done... Porsche > BMW.

[2JZM3]

If you like the car then it is a good decision for you. Hope to see you back in the M3 scene soon. Congrats on the purchase.