[Serious]

Originally Posted by mmihld

It’s not just BMW stating it’s the best handling M3 they have ever made, but all the real "critical thinkers" like road and track, top gear, etc. It's typical product evolution.



All things being equal, weight has nothing to do with handling capability. It is the CG height that dictates handling. That is factual car handling physics

Hey, listen, I didn’t mean to upset E46 owners. I used to be one. But it’s an older generation car. Its outdated lust like the E30 and 1972 Torino.

and yet you still ordered a sunroof. So not only are you completely inept in physics but you didn't even choose to follow your own warped perception of vehicle dynamics.

God damn sometimes you just have to laugh at the **** people post.

[wilmar13]

Originally Posted by Serious

God damn sometimes you just have to laugh at the **** people post.

I'm pretty sure he was just trolling.

[checkmate1]

I own a 6 year old M3 and have to say that it still lights my pants on fire while at the same being a great DD. I've averaged 31mpg on the highway (have pics to prove)...something that the E92 M3 can never boast.

In terms of raw power-lets not compare because its not fair. In terms of steering feel and get-go...the lighter E46 feels more planted and peppy. I was in the market for a new e92 M3 and let me admit i was a tad bit underwhelmed all the way upto to 5k rpm. The car is a blast only after 6500... but lets be honest guys...most of us rarely get above that on DD. Two E92 M3 owners had a ride in my car and they simply couldn't stop laughing considering they could feel physically feel the g-forces in the E46 compared to their rides. One even said-he regrets spending all that money on the E92...go figure...

For me...the $60k plus price tag for a car that's chalked up and jammed full of more sensors (no oil dipstick anyone???) doesn't cut if for me. As with all things-these feelings are all subjective.

There are days when I wish I had a newer car (with maintenance covered)...but even if I spend $1,000 every 30,000 miles....still better value that a brand spanking new fat E92....

Let me put it this way-the E46 M3 is the last of the pure mechanical engines that your mechanically inclined acquaintance could help maintain. With the E92...I'd be running scared as soon as the warranty is over...heck-I need a damn IT degree to diagnose and resolve the sensory overload..

[Zman84]

Some of you are missing the point...

The M3 has always been a high performance version of the current 3 series. Naturally, a car designed in the 80s (the e30) is completely different from a modern car. Safety regulations, more luxury items, size increase and more power have necessitated adding more chassis reinforcements and thus more weight. The entire 3 series line has moved more toward being a small 5-series and less of a compact, entry level BMW.

If you have ever tracked your car, then you know how important weight is. I own an e92, and have driven an e46, both on a track. While the e92 is more advanced in almost every way, it cannot hide its weight, so when tracking the car, you need that extra power and big tires to make up for the weight deficit. You are fighting more then you would in an e46, which is much more direct and linear. That is not to say that the e92 is a dog or not fun on the track; it's a blast, and should suit almost all of us fine. None of us are professional racers. The e9x is more luxurious for sure, but perhaps you may not want or need that.

I give every M driver a thumbs up as i pass by; each model is unique, and an excellent choice. As far as any M3 goes...in what other car can you track it all day, beating 80% of the cars out there, then go directly to your girlfriends house and pick her up for dinner, being very comfortable along the way.

-Mike

[ShakeNbake]

Originally Posted by Zman84

Some of you are missing the point...

The M3 has always been a high performance version of the current 3 series. Naturally, a car designed in the 80s (the e30) is completely different from a modern car. Safety regulations, more luxury items, size increase and more power have necessitated adding more chassis reinforcements and thus more weight. The entire 3 series line has moved more toward being a small 5-series and less of a compact, entry level BMW.

If you have ever tracked your car, then you know how important weight is. I own an e92, and have driven an e46, both on a track. While the e92 is more advanced in almost every way, it cannot hide its weight, so when tracking the car, you need that extra power and big tires to make up for the weight deficit. You are fighting more then you would in an e46, which is much more direct and linear. That is not to say that the e92 is a dog or not fun on the track; it's a blast, and should suit almost all of us fine. None of us are professional racers. The e9x is more luxurious for sure, but perhaps you may not want or need that.

I give every M driver a thumbs up as i pass by; each model is unique, and an excellent choice. As far as any M3 goes...in what other car can you track it all day, beating 80% of the cars out there, then go directly to your girlfriends house and pick her up for dinner, being very comfortable along the way.

-Mike

I've had the good fortune to have owned both the E46 and E90 and put 5K+ track miles on each. Stock for stock, the E90 murders the E46 in every track scenario I can think of. Throw some motons on the E46 and tune it a bit, and it claws back some ground. The E90 chassis is superior, period. Though, I do regret moving on to the E90. The way I had my E46 setup and tuned was a much more satisfying package at the track than the E90 in stock form - as it obviously would be.

Life moves on, instead of stripping the trunk to save 20lbs in the E46, I leave the baby seat strapped in the E90....

More than anything I hope the F3X gets a real M motor like the S54 and S65. Both have tremendous character, perfect track performance, and a sound to die for.

[Quesadilla]

yeah, if they just plan on modifying the n54 for the next m3 as well, like they are doing on this 1m, I will be looking at this v8 m3 as the last shrieker , the sound of the n54 turbo engine is just not as interesting to me.

[guttenM3]

it will be a darn shame when they get rid of high revving NA M-cars...with that said, if some how they can get an FI car to rev around 7200 rpm and get a nice torque curve, then I could see it being fun. BMW is shifting it's "effecient dynamics" thought process to FI cars smaller displacement motors...every car maker is trying to get their fleets into higher MPG ratings...

[F360C]

Originally Posted by Serious

and yet you still ordered a sunroof. So not only are you completely inept in physics but you didn't even choose to follow your own warped perception of vehicle dynamics.

God damn sometimes you just have to laugh at the **** people post.

I got a good laugh at this guys understanding of what makes a good handling car. Has this e92 guy ever been to the track? If he has I can assure you he is not in the fast group because he does not have a great understanding of handling physics. I love the e92 M3 and love every minute I spend in it. The S65 is one of the true great motors and combined with the DCT it is even more amazing but the E92 M3 is now way more to the soft side of GT then the e46 M3 which was more to the hard side of GT. Weight is everything when it comes to making a car handle better. Just look at most race series these days. They use car weight to control the speed differential between different cars. If one car is too fast compared to the others they add weight... if one car is slower then the other they subtract weight. CG plays a roll but not to the extent weight does.

While I don't own an E46 M3 one does spend alot of time parked in my driveway and I get the chance to drive it all the time. Parked next to the E92 the the e46 sits lower. Therefore I would say the e92 has a lower CG then the e46. Actually if I can get my buddy to bring his stock e46 ZCP by today I will park it next to the e92 m3 to get a pic of how much lower the e46 sits. The e46 m3 that I usually drive is lowered so it would be a fair comparison against the stock e92.

[MThrice]

The e92 bloated pig is all of 130 pounds heavier than an e46! Thats the weight of your skinny gf in the passenger seat. I've owned an e36,46, and now 92, and dont remember gushing over either as much as my e92. Im not a tracker, and why would anyone with an e92 under warranty be, unless your completely loaded with cash! But I can say this, the e46 and e36 were fast in 1st and 2nd, the e92 is fast in every gear! And as for handling, the e92 increase in lateral g is the greatest jump from any generation to next of any M. And you can feel it as soon as you drive one for yourself.

Originally Posted by Teutonic

You are the new owners and people bmw is catering to, the I have something new and so therefor it must be better, or you all drive the 9 new models of SUVS that bmw continues to make. Long dead are us enthusiasts that work on our cars, and TRACK them. Weight is a big factor and sorry but the new M3 is a fat heavy bloated pig!. It has strayed far from what the M3 once was. Here in Germany the e36 and e46s are the track monsters on the Nordschliefe and at the Sachsenring.They are easier to fling around a track and a better platform to start with. And People with money and a love for bmws dont get the e92 if they do its to drive to and from the track or to do a motor swap and strip it out.. But the majority get the E46 and either supercharge it or do motor swap to S65 or S85. I think in the last couple years now I have seen more E92s with the S85 in them than the S65 at the track...


Nordschleife
M3 CSL
7:50 --- 157.79 km/h - BMW E46 M3 CSL, 360 PS/1421 kg (sport auto 08/03)
M3GTS
7:48 --- 158.46 km/h - BMW M3 GTS, 450 PS/1546 kg (sport auto 08/10)

The M3GTS shouldve crushed the CSL but the GTS like all other e92s is still to heavy.

They are updating their website sorry for that.
Manhart Racing
http://manhart-racing.de/

Tauber Motorsports e46m3.. I know the guy is driving with one hand and no helmet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0hYqtP2r-Y

As for me I will never buy newer than a e46M3, I want one CSL to track, if I have the money after im done at my University then I will go over to a used 964,993 Porsche. Porsche seems to keep weight off of its new cars like someone stated perviously.. grüße:-)

[Zman84]

Originally Posted by MThrice

Im not a tracker, and why would anyone with an e92 under warranty be, unless your completely loaded with cash!

On the contrary, the e92 is an excellent track car for someone who is not loaded. It performs just about as well on the track as a 911, and can go home and be your DD and pick up groceries. And doing it while the car is under warranty is preferable; if something breaks, they fix it free...no one has to know the car was at the track. The dealer screws us over on enough things.