[shoe]

Originally Posted by gobuffs

Don't EVER ask USAA about covering DEs. They WILL drop you immediately, no questions asked.

Really? You know this for a fact, because I'm in a bit of a similar situation myself and trying to decide whether to file a claim and risk a premium increase (or being dropped completely after 25 years) or cover it out of my own pocket ($5K-8K probably). Here's a quote from my USAA policy from Exclusions, paragraph 8:

Loss to your covered auto or any non-owned auto, located inside a facility designed for racing, for the purpose of:

a. Competing in; or
b. Practicing or preparing for;

any prearranged or organized racing or speed contest.

The DE I was attending specifically prohibits any timing devices or competition. Plus, I had an instructor in car. To my reading, the exclusion does NOT apply in this case.

I actually called USAA to inquire about what my policy increase would be with an at-fault collision on my record. She wouldn't quote me an exact figure, but said it would depend on how much they had to pay out. When she asked about the circumstances, I was truthful but non-specific: Loss of control in heavy rain; spun off the road and impacted a "berm". 3 body panels damaged. No other property damage or injury.

--Jim

[innerstrength1@]

Great thread, and very timely for me. Please keep the info coming if anyone has something to ad.

[gobuffs]

Preface: I am not in the insurance industry, but I have been doing track events for 13 years and this issue constantly comes up. Additionally I have 2 friends that work in the industry handling claims. They are the guys you work with after the accident.

Originally Posted by TJDiCandido

As I mentioned before, there's a big difference between insuring a "race car" vs. insuring a street car that’s occasionally driven in non-timed, non-competitive, track-based instructional events (with controls built into the curriculum to promote safety).

If you’re competing in timed, competitive, driving events, then you shouldn’t be doing it in any car that you can’t afford to destroy...

I'm not talking about race cars. My race car doesn't have ANY insurance on it, although I should get STP (storage, transport, paddock) insurance.

Agree to an extent- you shouldn't do any driving event in a car that you can't afford to walk away from- including "educational" DE type environments.

I am dead serious about policies varying from state to state even policies written by the same company. The language of your policy thru XYZ company will vary from your friend's policy written by XYZ company written in another state. Could be the same, but probably isn't. I know that Massachusettes doesn't cover DEs. The generic language in Texas DOES cover DEs, but probably doesn't cover autox ("timed competitive event"). The Texas language was the same up til a few years ago. The state now allows companies to write their own language but it has to be approved by the state insurance dept. So far I haven't heard of a company changing the language just to exclude DEs.

Originally Posted by shoe

Really? You know this for a fact, because I'm in a bit of a similar situation myself and trying to decide whether to file a claim and risk a premium increase (or being dropped completely after 25 years) or cover it out of my own pocket ($5K-8K probably). Here's a quote from my USAA policy from Exclusions, paragraph 8:


The DE I was attending specifically prohibits any timing devices or competition. Plus, I had an instructor in car. To my reading, the exclusion does NOT apply in this case.

I actually called USAA to inquire about what my policy increase would be with an at-fault collision on my record. She wouldn't quote me an exact figure, but said it would depend on how much they had to pay out. When she asked about the circumstances, I was truthful but non-specific: Loss of control in heavy rain; spun off the road and impacted a "berm". 3 body panels damaged. No other property damage or injury.

--Jim

Covering you for an incident that has already occured is different than calling ahead and saying "Hey, I'm going to a DE at Superfast Speedway, am I covered?" USAA will drop in that instance (heard it many times over). One of my friends mentioned above has said don't ask your agent as he won't cover the claim, don't ask to see a copy of your policy as you already have it, and under no circumstances should you ask for it "in writing" that you are covered ahead of time.

As to your specific incident...I am not a lawyer, don't play one on TV, didn't sleep at Holiday Inn last night and am not in the insurance industry. My take on the situation...the longer you go making the claim, the worse it looks for you. They may want to see a police report. If your policy doesn't exclude a DE, then you should be covered. If they find out it was at a race track, at your renewal they might 1) raise your rates (in Texas the most they can go up is 30% IIRC), or 2) drop you. If you claim it, I'd shop around to see what else you can get if they do drop you.

[elbert]

Originally Posted by shoe

Really? You know this for a fact, because I'm in a bit of a similar situation myself and trying to decide whether to file a claim and risk a premium increase (or being dropped completely after 25 years) or cover it out of my own pocket ($5K-8K probably). Here's a quote from my USAA policy from Exclusions, paragraph 8:

This post from Lotustalk says:

In the exclusions section of my USAA policy, it states that the vehicle is not covered for competitions. You would think then that an HPDE is covered. BUT, if you read further, they exclude any accident on a closed circuit while improving driving skills (or something to that effect.) Read your exclusions very carefully.

Your exclusions may be different but you might want to double check.

[innerstrength1@]

+1 on begging for forgiveness instead of asking for permission.

[magnetic1]

I think the burdon shifts to you for proving you were at the racetrack and not practicing/preparing for a speed contest or organized racing. How successful you are in that, I do not know.

I crashed at an autoX a very long time ago before DEs/AutoX were really all that popular. I was covered under Erie Insurance, but was dropped not too long after.

[C-M2]

I'll add my .02 being from the Insurance industry. I'll type this up quickly and hopefully clear up a few things.

Most States have set forth standards for Insurance Companies to oblige by if they want to be able to write coverage in that state. Requirement's vary from state to state. If you have minimum liability limits required by your state and happen travel to a different state which requires limits of liability which are HIGHER then your states requirements. The Insurance Carrier by law must oblige by those limits while your vehicle is operating in that state.

What those standards and requirements are I would contact your states insurance department for a list.

As for covering YOUR vehicle on the track. That is determined by your insurance company. It may be excluded, It may not be. You need to read the fine print. In most states insurance providers will only cover damage done to YOUR vehicle. It may not cover any liability damage that occurs. Leaving you with 15k of out of pocket expenses to pay for that light post you happen to have run over... Or the 200k in medical bills for the track attendant that happened to get hit.

Discussing what is covered and what isn't by said insurance companies on a Nationwide internet forum is not the best of ideas. Each company will have different perils that they cover depending on the state.

There are companies/brokers like Lockton/WSIB which specialize in writing motorsports policies. I personally would not cheap out on such things. I would go through them even though I know my personal company does not exclude HPDE's. These Specialized brokers/companies may be placing your HPDE coverage with a company like Encompass for example, But that does not mean that your Encompass Personal Auto policy covers these events. It can be a separate policy that needs to be purchased or endorsement that is applied.

You guys need to watch out what companies will and will not cover. Its all in the fine print. If you have doubt. Purchase coverage with Lockton/WSIB... You can never have too much insurance.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by shoe
Really? You know this for a fact, because I'm in a bit of a similar situation myself and trying to decide whether to file a claim and risk a premium increase (or being dropped completely after 25 years) or cover it out of my own pocket ($5K-8K probably). Here's a quote from my USAA policy from Exclusions, paragraph 8:
This post from Lotustalk says:

Quote:
In the exclusions section of my USAA policy, it states that the vehicle is not covered for competitions. You would think then that an HPDE is covered. BUT, if you read further, they exclude any accident on a closed circuit while improving driving skills (or something to that effect.) Read your exclusions very carefully.
Your exclusions may be different but you might want to double check.

Which is why I said I was 99% sure. Of course, it might not apply to people from communist states, or it might... Depends...which is why the advice to check your policy is good advice.

[Fatal Flash]

Ontrackinsurance.com
Ask for Steve Katz and tell him Dan from robinhood rally referred you. Great company

[Feffman]

Our track insurance is up for renewal and it seems the firm we are/were with is NOT continuing the program.

We will be using Lockton Affinity (www.HPDEInsuranceProgram.com) from now on, particularly since they now have both annual and single-day programs for on-track coverage.

Feff